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Ep. 115: Awaken Your Spiritual Energy and Find Connections and Cures to Experiencing a Long and Meaningful Life with Dr. Gabriel Cousens

Robyn Openshaw - Jan 16, 2019 - This Post May Contain Affiliate Links

Vibe with Robyn Openshaw: Awaken your spiritual energy and find connections and cures to experiencing a long and meaningful life, with Dr. Gabriel Cousens. Episode 115

Today’s episode is another one from our Learn From Our Elders series, where Robyn has curated people who are 65+ and still contributing massively to their own body of work, and to the planet. This elder is a hero who has been instrumental in much of Robyn’s own journey to whole foods and vibrational living. Dr. Gabriel Cousens is a Holistic Physician, Homeopath, Psychiatrist, Family Therapist, Ayurvedic Practitioner and a Chinese Herbalist. He is a world leading diabetes researcher, ecological leader, spiritual master, bestselling author and the founder and director of the Tree of Life Center.

In this episode we learn from this great master how eating certain foods and avoiding others, focusing on our internal energy source and not looking to external sources, helps us to actually gain more strength, wisdom and flexibility with age, and allows us to become a superconductor to the Divine and live a life of meaning.


Find out more about Dr. Cousens and his work

Get his books:

Conscious Parenting

Spiritual Nutrition

There is a Cure for Diabetes


Robyn: Hey everyone. Robyn Openshaw here, and welcome to The Vibe Show.

I hope you’re having a great 2019. So far, I’ve had such an amazing 2018 that I’m almost a little scared to go into 2019. I’m not sure it can top my last year, which was really good.

I’d like to talk about that, because sometimes we have a bad year. Sometimes you have a lot of bad things happen to [you]. The year before that, three pets died on me. I lost three cats. The good thing that you can learn about life is, when tough things happen to you, notice and celebrate and be present in the really, really good times. That’s one of the things I really did in 2018: notice all the great things that happened.

Today I’m really excited about our interview because Dr. Gabriel Cousens is a big hero of mine. He’s written 14 internationally acclaimed books, including “Conscious Parenting” and “Spiritual Nutrition”. Pretty interesting topics, right? He’s known all over the world as a spiritual teacher and a leading expert in the raw vegan movement; or, the way he would put it is a “live plant based nutrition movement.”

What’s really interesting to me about him is that he’s a holistic physician, but he started as a Columbia trained medical doctor. He’s a psychiatrist by background – a family therapist – but he’s also really gone deep into cutting edge research on diabetes. He has a doctorate in homeopathy in addition to his medical degree. He has diplomas in Ayurveda, clinical acupuncture, and holistic medicine.

He’s really multicultural. What you don’t hear, as we start this interview, is that he gave a prayer. He’s an ordained rabbi. He’s a major Yogi. He’s a four year Native American Sundancer. He is not like any medical doctor you’ve probably ever talked to before.

You may know him as the founder of “The Tree of Life” foundation in Arizona. He also has a book called “There is a Cure for Diabetes” and I really enjoyed in this interview talking to him about his work with both Type I and Type II diabetes. It’s really going to challenge what you think about diabetes.

So, Dr. Cousens. I’m so glad you came on the show because your work has impacted my life for decades now. And we want to learn from you because I have a feeling that you know some stuff that we don’t. Those of us who are younger really want to learn from you. You can tell us how old you are or not, but we’re here to learn what you know by being over the age of 60 that we could benefit from.

Dr. Cousens: Okay. Well, I’m very happy to be here, and to be sharing understandings and wisdom with you.

Robyn: I’m so delighted that you agreed to come on the show because when I started searching, when I was very ill some 25 years ago, I definitely ran across your work and read some of your body of work, which is impressive.

So fast forward 25 years, I’ve never met you or talked to you. But I wanted to reach out to you because we’re digging into the lives of people who are still working, who are still contributing, who are still authoring books, still researching, still serving others, when they’re over 65.

So you’re welcome to say, or not say, how old you are, but what do you have to say about what you’ve learned by being one of our elders, that we now want to look to?

Dr. Cousens: At age 75, I look at it… I’ll use the word aging, but I’m going to use the word wise-aging, creative-aging. And the truth is, if you’re really paying attention, you actually can become stronger with age.

When I was captain of an undefeated football team at age 20, I could do 70 pushups and 7 pull ups, 500 sit ups, whatever. Okay. And at age 75 I have done 601 pushups and up to a 100 pull ups. And whereas I couldn’t even get close to touching my toes – flexibility here – as a football player, now I can put the palms of my hands on the floor.

So with age I’ve gotten stronger, more flexible, more endurance, and actually more strength. So that is what I call wise chronological aging. In other words, it isn’t the paradigm that people accept.

If we give it an intention and if we’re focusing on getting stronger and quicker and flexible, that can happen. It kind of needs more time to do it, that’s all. So the advantage of chronological age is you get more time to get stronger and more flexible, if that makes sense.

So age then is not an impediment. This is thoughtful chronological, aging. I’m using the word chronological because in many ways, as I’ve just said, my body’s younger. So that’s a whole different perspective.

Now what we joke about is: if only I knew what I know now when I was 20, life would be different. The advantage of getting stronger, more flexible, and so forth with age is you have all those advantages and the wisdom that comes with chronological age. So it’s just different way of thinking about the whole process.

Robyn: I know that you eat a plant based diet, and I want to get to how your beliefs may have changed – if at all – about the plant based diet, because we certainly have a lot of dogmas raging right now. I don’t know how in touch you are with what’s going on right now, but now there’s a carnivore diet that’s sort of taking the fads by storm; basically, people are saying there’s no evidence we even need plants, we should just eat animals.

But I actually want to go to the third thing that you’ve touched on besides your flexibility. I know yoga is a big part of your practice. But I want to go to the third thing, and that is you were talking about “if only I had known at 20 I know later.” This is a question I’ve been asking people in our series “Learned from Our Elders”.

If you at 75 could go back and talk to your 35 year old self, if you just had a few minutes, what would you say? What would you tell him?

Dr. Cousens: The importance of focus on the cosmic reality, which is to know God. The truth is at a cycle of my life, 33 to 40, I became very intensely focused in spiritual life, and I was meditating six hours a day, chanting for four and a half hours, traveling with spiritual teachers; Swami Muktananda for seven years, with my whole family, which everybody benefited from.

So the message I would speak to people really younger – early twenties even – is, keep your eye on the bigger purpose of life, which is to know God. That’s really the most important message.

The second most important message I would say is, look and create a life of meaning versus a life of purpose. What’s the distinction? Meaning is that, in every moment, you’re bringing in holiness and sacredness in every action; not just in the action of eating, but every action is coming from a place of love and peace.

Purpose is a goal oriented, but without meaning, you really aren’t evolving. Because the point of being on the planet, from my viewpoint, is that we’re here to evolve into the oneness.

That’s the message I would give to even people in college, where I’m very concerned about the lack of meaning people are having in their lives. We’re looking at greatly increased rates of suicide. People 24, 25, 26 because the meaning [is lacking] and then ultimately purpose. Creating a life of meaning by how you live in every moment becomes literally life-saving when we really look at the statistics, which are very, very concerning for what’s going on in this country, and in many ways around the world.

So that’s what I would say, that the simple advice is focus on creating a life of meaning in every moment. And in that process, look for what we call right livelihood, so that even your livelihood is creating meaning and value for you. But it’s an internal focus primarily that creates a life of meaning. And that would be the advice I would give in a simple way.

Robyn: Interesting. What do you think it is about the world now or the kids now? Why are the millennials in such existential crisis? And we have so many of them not knowing what their purpose is; which you say is because we really need to have them looking at meaning.

What do you have to say to the millennials? Most of my followers will relate to this more on the level of their concern for their millennial children.

Dr. Cousens: My children are in their late forties, but I have grandchildren who are in their early teens. What I sense happening (and I’m always asking my grandchildren these questions just to be honest, so I’m getting feedback; some are in New York and some are in California) is the issue is what they’re teaching in school doesn’t seem to touch on meaningful life. You can have politics, you can have this, you can have that. But the meaningful life is the key.

And that’s my biggest concern: that people are looking outward, where there’s this kind of secondary reality, rather than looking inward where the meaning comes from, where the spark of God within yourself exists. And accessing that.

Because when you do access that – we’re talking about non-causal, not dependent on the outer world, non-causal love, non-causal joy, non-causal peace, non-causal oneness, non-causal compassion – in other words, you have that because you’re having an inner experience of that truth. That’s also the key to successful relationships; you’re not depending on the relationship to give you those things and the relationship adds to those things.

So what I see today is a crisis. The existential crisis that you’re talking about is people aren’t being brought up around, and certainly not getting, particularly in college, meaning. Leading a meaningful life that adds value to the whole planet, and thinking externals can give that to you.

You know, when you’re not connected to your soul, which is what we’re talking about, often people lose a sense of divine order and you get involved with things of hurting other people or making a lot of protests, and that’s externally focused.

What happens then is we start develop what I call, what’s been called, “PC”, known as “politically correct”, but I call it “pollution of consciousness”. It’s in the sense that people allow themselves to be controlled by other people defining what’s correct. And that definition is usually not anchored in what we call the 10 Speakings, or the Buddhist Eightfold Path, or the Yamas and Niyamas, the Vedas. In other words, they’re not related to God as the source from which we begin to guide our actions.

But if we say anything goes, just “if you feel good about it, then do it,” that’s a dark point of view and it doesn’t honor the anchor that keeps us focused on the cosmic truth rather than the post-relative truth that we’re seeing today.

People are lost and they’re in that lack-of-soul connection. That’s where you get all the agitation, the greatly increased suicide. It’s concerning because I have three granddaughters, and the rate of teenage suicide for girls is three fold higher than it was in the sixties and seventies. That’s a concern.

I focus on helping, and my children are great in terms of meaning and value for them, but I’m talking to my grandchildren that way too. So that’s, to me, the key in the breakdown for the millennials; they don’t have that inner connection with their soul. And I try in my teachings to give people ways to reconnect deeply with their souls. That’s kind of how I’m approaching it; the advice is, really, live a way of life that really deepens your connection with your soul.

Robyn: But it’s so wonderful that you’ve lived your life in a way that you’ll be a part of your grandchildren’s lives, well into their adulthood because of the choices that you’ve made.

Because I’ll tell you, I rolled my eyes at what my parents had to say, and I just wanted my autonomy from them. And I certainly find my adult children having similar reactions to me sometimes, especially the younger ones. But I hung on every word that my grandparents said. And I sought them out; sometimes I would ask my grandparents questions and literally write down the answers that they gave me because I saw them as wise, and I didn’t have the pushback issues with them.

So you have a lot of impact on your grandchildren. And I’m sure you don’t take that for granted. You have great power in their lives and that’s really exciting that you get to spend time with them and have these really philosophical conversations you’re having with us right now.

Let’s talk a little bit about your dietary philosophy. I know you’ve coined the term holistic veganism, and I have a feeling that what you have to tell us about how you see diet and nutrition is going to be pretty philosophical. I have a feeling from you, from reading your works and hearing your words so far, that it’s going to have much more to it than “don’t eat this and do eat that.” So tell us about holistic veganism.

Dr. Cousens: I have to start with my somewhat humorous one-day conversion into that.

In 1973, my wife was pregnant with our second child and we both had this nightmare. And the nightmare is the fetus was a chicken and we were eating it. I became Vegan after that one-day conversion. Two people having the same nightmares is interesting in itself.

That’s how it started. And then as it unfolded, when the spiritual awakening happened – the Kundalini awakening – a little voice rang out and said, “You should learn to eat and live in a way that supports the unfolding of the Kundalini,” the life spiritual energy within us, also known as Ruach ha-kodesh and a variety of other words. But the point is, you should learn to eat and live that supports it.

So from that I began into looking at, “okay, what’s the optimal diet?” I was already Vegan, but what’s the optimal diet? So this is 1975, and what I saw was a Vegan and live-food diet that helps us become a superconductor of the divine. In other words, not just eating it for, “it’s good for your health?” That’s not the point.

The point I was looking at is, “what is the best diet to enhance spiritual life?” So that’s the angle. Now, it’s unquestionable when we look at it; we go to The Garden of Eden diet, it was an organic [diet]. They didn’t have the word organic in those days, everything was organic but they didn’t have that until 1944 when that term was coined; but basically it was a live-food, plant-based diet.

As I work with thousands of people around the world, by my relationship with Swami Muktananda and traveling and meeting people, it became clear that the live food part of it was, and being-plant based, the most powerful way to support spiritual life. So that’s my angle with it.

Now, clearly it doesn’t cause cruelty to animals and doesn’t cause death and misery. And from a spiritual point of view, it’s important to understand that when we kill an animal, we create pain, fear and misery, and then we take that frequency into ourselves, which interferes with our spiritual life, because pain, fear and misery and anxiety interferes with spiritual life. So besides avoiding animal cruelty, we are very much minimizing negative vibrations and frequencies that we take in through our food for those reasons. So that’s a second reason.

A third and very important reason is how important it is for the environment that a plant-based diet is a minimum of at least one twelfth of the energy that’s needed compared to a meat-based diet. It preserves the land in a major way. It decreases global warming gases in a major way.

It definitely supports the ecology, the land and the air and the water. Literally, a Vegan saves one swimming pool full of water each year. So it’s a lot. 1.5 million gallons. So that’s another aspect.

In terms of health, we’re looking at major benefits from health. That’s again not the reason I chose it, but it clearly is a great byproduct that people who are in a plant based diet are going to have 35 to 50 percent less diabetes, Type two diabetes, which is an important thing.

That’s diabetes; you’re going to have 33 percent less heart disease. This is all well documented. You’re going to have one quarter the amount of osteoporosis. That’s really significant because a meat-based diet is going to pull calcium out of the system. And you’re going to basically have significantly less cancer and other chronic diseases.

Now we’re looking at supporting spiritual life in a major way, becoming a superconductor to the divine, because of the subtle channels which are known as Nadis. There’s 72,000 nadis in the Vedic system. They get clogged with milk, beef, fish and chicken, which blocks the flow of the Kundalini. These are all things I’ve kind of discovered in working with people over time.

So we’ve spiritual life. We have ecological life. We have your personal health life. Those are three major pieces that are important.

In terms of your brain function, the research shows that KAFO grown animals, which is 95% of the animal flesh food that we’re getting here, increases the rate of Alzheimer’s three fold. Saying, hey, you want to protect your brain, then you need to go plant based.

Those are my reasons, and looking at what I call holistic veganism, and really holistic enlightenment, is that this is the diet that best supports your spiritual life, life on the planet, and really life for all sentient beings.

Robyn: Before I go to a bigger question, what are KAFO grown animals?

Dr. Cousens:

That’s factory farmed k-a-f-o. In other words, they’re basically grown in pens and it’s very limited and the food is very controlled; it’s not grass-fed food, that’s part of the reason there’s a certain virus that they get like mad cow disease. The food that they’re eating creates an increase in this infective virus. It actually causes Alzheimer’s. You know what I’m saying by that, right?

Robyn: Yes. I totally understand. I saw a piece of research recently that tracked meat eaters who ate clean meats, against the people who ate factory farmed, if we could put that under one label.

Dr. Cousens: And remember that’s 95 percent.

Robyn: Right, it’s most people in America. I mean, it’s expensive. It’s very expensive to eat the other versions, grass-fed and organic versions of fish, poultry, beef. And what was interesting is that there was no difference in the cancer rate in the meat eaters who ate expensive, clean meat and the dirtier factory farmed types of animal products. And that’s not what I expected to see.

And I think that we’ve been going on the assumption, since the last 10 years where it started to become more in demand in the economy, that it sort of became popular to get these more humanely raised animals for human consumption. And all I’m saying is let’s check our assumptions, because we may be wrong that our disease risk is going to be lower eating a bunch of animal products that are more humanely grown.

But I’m not saying to go back to eating factory farm. That is absolutely is not the answer here.

Dr. Cousens: You know, I totally agree. I love that piece. I actually didn’t know that piece of comparison. Because now there’s enough where we can actually have a comparison. What we know is the research that has been done in middle age men.

What they found is that there’s an optimum amount of protein to eat, 35 to 70 grams, which is way less than what most meat eaters eat. Okay? 35 to 70 grams. Some people, according to their constitution, need about 35 grams; I’m more one of those. Other people need around 70 grams. That’s still low for most people. If you stay within that parameter, you’re going to have increased longevity in a sense, and significant less cancer.

What they found is that men eating more than that in their forties, thirties to forties, actually had four times more cancer and double the mortality rate. That’s really significant. So I’m just making a little point. Adding to what you’re doing, is that it really does make a difference.

So high protein diets, particularly high meat protein, this is what we’re talking about, really do increase the rate of cancer like four-fold. They also, as they say, increase the rate of diabetes.

Now, there’s a little bit more to it, but when I’m talking about protein, I’m talking about animal protein that seems to increase the rate of diabetes 35 to 50 percent. With heart disease, if you’re having more than a slice of animal protein, like a deck of cards, it’s going to bring you up to about 20 percent increase in cancer.

This is about a 15% increase in cancer, 20% increase in heart disease. What we are really seeing is, it’s animal protein that is causing the big problem versus plant-based proteins.

There’s a few other nuances here, but mostly people eat too much protein and that is very bad for their health.

Robyn: What’s so interesting about your work is that there are plenty of us out there talking about the health benefits, and you’ve listed off some really good statistics about heart disease and diabetes and cancer; there are so many health benefits to eating a more plant-based diet all the way to a completely plant-based diet. And you take it to a whole other level of being mostly raw.

I’ve been 60 to 80 percent raw for almost 25 years now and I believe that it saved my life. It saved my children’s, at least one of my children’s, lives. Maybe I wouldn’t be dead if I had not made that shift, but I certainly would not have this life that I have, this completely amazing life where I’m able to produce so much and live in the high vibrations.

What I am really fascinated by in your work is that there are lots of us talking about the health benefits, like the reasons to shift to a more plant-based diet for health reasons. There are also lots of people talking about the ecological consequences, or the reasons that support life on the planet is not sustainable by eating the amount of animal products that Americans eat.

But you are almost standing alone; your main message is about the spiritual benefits of eating a live, raw, plant-based diet. And I wonder if you can talk about this for a minute.

We put 13,000 people through a 26 day detox. We don’t talk a lot about the fact that the whole 26 days they’re eating nothing but plants – and they figure it out if they didn’t read the whole manual and notice that there’s absolutely no animal products in it for 26 days – because we don’t want to say, hey, this is vegetarian, this is vegan, because it’s polarizing. A lot of people do not resonate with that, who might actually have a great experience during our detox. And I’m going to be supportive of them at whatever place on the spectrum that they are.

But you’ve mentioned that when people eat animals, because most animals, 95%, are raised in and die in pain, fear, misery, anxiety – and these are low vibrations – we now absorb that if we eat those animal products. What are some of the other mechanisms you’ve discovered that by eating mostly or all live plant-based foods, you attain a spiritual resonance?

Most people have never experienced that, Dr. Cousens. Why else is that? Besides that issue?

Dr. Cousens: I discovered this in an unusual way; trained as a psychiatrist, and a transpersonal psychiatrist and so forth, I was put in charge of the Ashram setting of people who are having difficulties with the awakened Kundalini. And what I observed, particularly back in America, is that these people – and I’m going to use the word jokingly – were self-medicating with meat. In other words, the Kundalini energy was going, and they were using it to dampen the energy.

So I looked at it and said okay, there’s a message in that, because they have discovered that if they eat meat, it was going to slow down the Kundalini; aka, spiritual energizing force. So I reversed it the other way and began observing people, saying, “Okay, now as you go to this diet, let’s see what happens to your spiritual interests and so forth.”

I did one study, and 95% of the people increased their spiritual interest just by going vegan without any extra discussion. It just began to happen naturally.

I began to observe that the flow of energy, the spiritual rising energy, was enhanced by using a plant-based only diet. That was a big breakthrough in understanding it. So that’s a piece of it. And then how is the flow?

Well, in the spiritual anatomy, we have nadis, which are where the subtle energy moves. And there’s three main nadis. I mentioned 72; but three main nadis, and these literally do get blocked with dairy, meat, fish, and chicken because of their heaviness and because, I believe, of the fear and pain. So those are two of the mechanisms.

What I also note in terms of flexibility is that people who are on a plant-based diet are indeed more flexible, and indeed more healthy. Well, you need a healthy mind and a healthy body to have the power and strength to focus on spiritual life. Meditation takes a little bit of energy, you know, chanting, doing a service. They call it Karma Yoga. We’re doing charitable service.

I travel all over the world, I’ve spoken in 42 different countries. Well, that really takes a bit of energy. It’s not something you just do. Flying in an airplane is a little bit of work, and going to these places. So, to be able to contribute to the world in an optimal way, to have the energy to meditate and do these things, it is all enhanced by this diet.

And that’s why I mentioned that there was research, even with mice, because we can see if it was your mental state. And they found that when they fed mice a raw food diet, they had two to three times more energy.

None of this is an accident. It actually increases your energy, increases the flexibility, increases the strength, increases the endurance. We start to see, you need that for spiritual life. You don’t want to wait until you’re older, and not having the energy to do it because then you can’t pursue a spiritual life, because your body is not keeping up and your mind isn’t working as well either.

It all goes hand in hand in the bigger picture. There’s a holistic synergy here that makes a huge difference. And diet is one of the six factors. They’re all wound together, if that makes sense.

Robyn: Very interesting. You know, I talk about you a lot because of… I think the documentary is called “Simply Raw”? But I met a gentleman who was one of the 30, I believe it was. You’ll have to remind us of the details.

Dr. Cousens: There were six main people in it, but I’ve done work with lots of people with the diabetes program and so forth. But there were six key people in it.

Robyn: I did a video with an African American gentleman who had completed his naturopathic doctor.

Dr. Cousens: That’s Kurt.

Robyn: Yes. That’s who. I tell you, I never got such ferocious feedback as when I did a video with him probably 10 years ago, and he told his story, and people were so angry with me. They said, “If you’re saying that you can cure diabetes, you cannot cure diabetes, you’re going to kill people by telling them to get off of insulin.”

And I said, “I didn’t tell them anything. I just interviewed the man who is now off of insulin completely, as a result of Dr. Cousens programs.”

So tell us about what people think about diabetes, and what you discovered in taking all these diabetics out into the desert?

Dr. Cousens: Well, it’s a long and short story.

I have a book called “There is a Cure for Diabetes” and I just want to footnote it by saying that a few doctors now have come out with kind of a, “there is a cure” type of book.

Kurt really was a Type I diabetic and most people feel there is no cure for Type I diabetes. But in my program – not just with Kurt, because that was my wake-up call doing that program – with a 120 people I did another study that I refer to, and with that group of people, 61% of the Type II diabetics, who were not on insulin, were healed in three weeks.

Now we have to define what that means. That means you have a fasting blood sugar of less than a hundred in all your other parameters, your fasting insulin, investing Leptin; I don’t want to get too technical here, but are all normal. So in three weeks, 61% of those who were insulin dependent, 24% were healed.

I’m going to back up a little bit. Now, of the people who had diabetes, but were not on insulin, 100% were off all the medications. Of those who were on insulin, 86%, after three weeks, were off all medications with 24% cured.

Now we go to Type I diabetes, which even I thought was incurable. Just to be clear about that. And what we see is 21% were cured, meaning off insulin, off all medications, and with a fasting blood sugar of less than 100. We can’t be any clearer than that, for at least three months.

Kurt was one of those 21%. And 31% came off insulin and, again, had their blood sugars in the low 100’s. So we have it documented. It’s not really a debate.

There is a myth that you can’t heal diabetes and diabetes is a slow descent into an early death where you lose 10 to 19 years off your life. That was what I was going to say was what people thought, and certainly what I was taught at Columbia.

I have lectured around the world at different medical schools and so forth, and I had almost no opposition, literally. And I’m talking about not just in the US, but I’m talking about in Argentina, and Brazil. And in European places. So I haven’t found much, but the data is very powerful. And the way I explain it is very simple.

And all you have to look at is: meat eaters have 35 to 50 percent more diabetes, clearly if you’re going to go vegan or live food, you’re going to dramatically decrease that. That’s kind of where we’re coming from. I actually get very little resistance; one time in Africa, one doctor was upset about it, but again, everybody else gets it, because it’s a breakthrough.

Now, the truth is I’m not the first one to discover this. Doctor Gerson cured Albert Sweitzer of his Type II diabetes with a live food diet in 1920. So it isn’t like I invented this, it’s been happening. I just made it public. And the result of that is other doctors are moving in that direction, in curing diabetes without medication.

Again, it’s not a new finding, but now it’s public. So we’re shifting public ignorance, and I’m going say medical ignorance, into a certain amount of enlightenment on this basic level.

There is a cure for diabetes. More and more people are following it, not just the people I’m seeing. And I’m literally working with people all over the world, on this, helping them heal. So that’s kind of the answer to that.

So Kurt, because he’s Type II, that was more dramatic. And If I recall correctly, after two weeks, Kurt was off his insulin and his blood sugars were in the low 80’s. Optimum is 70 to 85 and less than 100 is non-diabetic. So he did well. Now, he wrote me a few years later that his blood sugars are going up. “What are you doing?” “Well, I’m eating fish”. I said, “Stop eating fish, and see what happens.” And immediately his blood sugars went back to into the low 80’s.

So we’re moving ahead. The public and a lot of the medical world, outside of what we call holistic physicians, moves a little slower in getting it. That’s all we’re talking about. I have no problem presenting this to holistic physicians, they totally get it. Does that answer that question?

Robyn: Yes, it does. And this has been a very long time since I read this from you. I never saw the documentary, but I read what you had to say about it and other sources.

I’m just wondering if you have this statistic at the ready in your mind, but I remember that you said that one thing that came out of your research with diabetics and what you did, taking them out into the Arizona desert and putting them on all raw live food, which you have the expertise of medical background to do, which is very brave of you. It was very envelope-pushing of you.

I remember you saying, basically, “Hey, this is wrong what most endocrinologists say, or virtually all endocrinologists will say, that ‘Hey, pancreas is nonfunctional here, therefore we have to medicate for life.’” And you said even Type I diabetics, the vast majority of people still are functioning in the islets of Langerhans. Am I wrong?

Dr. Cousens: Hey, good memory. So what it is, is they’ve been researched in postmortem research. And they found that Type I diabetic’s still have 80% of Beta cells. Some are lesser functioning. So the truth is at least 88% of Type I diabetics are indeed producing insulin. That’s really important. They’re usually not producing enough insulin to manage their blood sugar without some change.

What has happened, like with Kurt, is that we began to activate his Beta cells of the pancreas, and he’s secreting more insulin. So with herbs that have been around for literally thousands of years, particularly from India where they have lots of sugar and lots of diabetes, we’re able to literally stimulate the Beta cells of the pancreas to start producing more insulin. That is really exciting.

Now, in also working with kids, I’m not doing that now because it’s a lot of work for me in terms of follow up. But I have a boy come in and people thought he was juvenile diabetic and whatever else. He wasn’t producing enough insulin.

But after a year on the program, his insulin production improved. So 2 or above, 2 to 10 is a really good range. So he went from about 1.5 to 6. So we’re able, with herbs and diet, sustain him. I always say, well, let’s sustain that. It’s got to be at least three months.

So that’s my answer, that it’s been more accepted in the world today because the statistics are pretty good. But 88% of Type I, this is hardcore research. Having Beta cells, and producing insulin, but not enough. And that’s why we can be successful because with our diet, which minimizes the amount of sugar, we’re able to lower the sugar need to meet the amount of insulin that they’re putting out.

And that’s what has worked with Kurt. Now if he’s going to eat fish, which he’s not doing any more, then his blood sugars are going to go up because meat protein converts to blood sugar. So that gives you a paradigm. They’re producing it, but not enough on a regular American diet. We give them this diet, and then they’re producing enough because they’re taking in less sugar. Does that make sense?

Robyn: It does. And I think that the vast majority of people, the vast majority of doctors, even the vast majority of diabetics, are completely shocked by the idea. And there’s plenty of evidence for it. They’re just not getting it from your average endocrinologist that eating meat actually is problematic. Eating lots of meat is problematic for diabetics. They think they just have to avoid, or keep close tabs on, their sugars, and that just literally does not tell the whole story

Dr. Cousens: Totally doesn’t tell the whole story. Because meat protein does convert to sugar. It breaks down to that. And when I use the word, holistic physicians, holistic endocrinologist, don’t have any problem with it. And in ten more years, it will be common knowledge. It’s just what it takes for that change; a kind of mass consciousness. That’s really what we’re talking about.

Robyn: I do feel like there’s a shift coming, and the world’s going to be listening, listening more to the holistic endocrinologists, the holistic GPs, the holistic medical doctors in general. And you’ve really led the charge.

I want to go back because this isn’t really diabetes show, but that was an interesting side note.

Dr. Cousens: Well, it’s pretty important because people over 65, 27% have Type II diabetes because there’s some insomatic shifts with age that happens to people. That’s a big percentage, that’s more than a quarter of the population.

Robyn: I mean, it’s absolutely worth talking about. I saw people projecting, just looking at the arc, of diabetes diagnoses around the turn of the century.

I saw some suggestions that, based on the evidence, by the year 2020, all of us would be diabetic if it continued the way it is. Considering the fact that probably something like half of diabetics are not yet diagnosed, but they’re literally actively living with diabetes.

Dr. Cousens: That’s a really important point. We’re doing diabetes prevention programs all over the world. Literally we’re in 12 different countries and 18 different programs and we are having the local people we’ve trained, testing people with their fasting blood sugars.

We’re documenting what’s going on. And it is more than you would want to think about, I’ll put it that way. But giving a little bit of early warning, and giving people nutritional advice, is a major life saving event for people; as they say, 10 to 19 years is added to your life.

Robyn: I’m kind of glad we went sideways on this because we don’t talk about diabetes enough. And you present a picture of what the dietary advice should be that’s very radically different from what medicine is recommending to people.

But let’s come back to where you like to live in your zone.

Dr. Cousens: Diabetes is part of my zone. I’m going to tell you, partly by accident because it wasn’t my intention, but we’ve started with 30 Days Raw, and, suddenly, [we’re here].

Robyn: Let’s go back to a reference you made earlier about being a super conductor for the Divine.

I think this is very much the kind of thing that you’d like to talk about, and bring all the dietary advice back to this. Our show is called Vibe. It’s based on my book, which is basically about the vibrational frequency of everything.

You’re a psychiatrist. I’m a former psychotherapist, and this matters to me a lot because I think, just like you talked about how the schools don’t teach about how to have a meaningful life, I feel like the schools don’t teach how to have positive relationships, how to communicate, how to be loving.

There’s so many things that we’re missing in our education, even all the way through graduate school, training to be a therapist and help people with their emotional and mental issues.

Talk about what you mean, because we’ve talked a little bit about vibrational frequencies, but that really resonated with me when you talked about being a superconductor for the Divine. What do you mean by that?

Dr. Cousens: I want to honor you, because I love what you’re doing. I love the name of your show being “Vibe” because that’s right to the point.

Relating to that, we have a soul. Again, one of our problems today is people don’t believe in God, don’t believe there’s a soul, and they’re not turning inward to experience it.

There’s also a soul energy. In the eastern paradigm, it’s called Kundalini and it’s stored at the base of the spine in the subtle body. When certain things happen spiritually – like what we call Shakti Power, which is usually by touch, by look – it can awaken that Kundalini and do that work energetically. Then it begins to move throughout your whole system and everything becomes, in a sense, a more spiritual experience because the spiritual energy has been activated.

As I said, we call it Kundalini, in the biblical we call it Ruach Hakodesh, the Holy Spirit. But the point is that in this work, when you eat this way, it allows the channels, the nadis, the spiritual energy, to literally flow through more powerfully.

We are able to then to conduct this energy, superconduct in a way that isn’t as accessible to meat eaters. The meat clogs energetically, but frequency-wise, it clogs the nadis because you’re taking in the frequency of death.

Spirituality is the frequency of light, okay? It’s the frequency of the soul. Well, when you kill an animal, you’re violating that; you’re destroying the soul, and you’re creating that misery and fear.

You’re creating a negative frequency. So all the meat (we say meat, fish, chicken, dairy, all that), is coming has a negative frequency that blocks the flow of the positive frequency.

Going back to the word “vibe” and linking it based on what you asked, which is great, to that idea of becoming a super conductor to the Divine, from a dietary point of view.

It is tuning in to the higher frequencies which the plants have, and then allowing and opening the channels in our own system, the nadis, or 32 different pathways, so that the spiritual energy can flow better, in that way you become more of a superconductor of the divine energy which rests within, as us. Does that make sense? Does that clarify your question?

Robyn: It does, and I love your answer. And I guess the last question I have for you is, what are your future plans? When you’re 75 and you’re still actively contributing to the world, what does one do from 75 on? What are you going to bring forth next?

Dr. Cousens: Well, we live in different cycles, and we didn’t really get into that.

I’m really, extremely active out going to the world for the next 17 years. And I’ve kind of readjusted our center; I’m seeing clients, I’m doing things, but I’m actually focused on a worldwide outreach. Which, when we’re just running a center where people come to stay, it’s a lot of work.

I’m doing more traveling, more outreach, more Internet. I’m very pleased to be on your show because you’re right in the same frequency here, which is really, really good. Vibe is perfect, you know.

So my goal is to be as available as possible to spread the spiritual awareness, and really a secondary… I say secondary, because you can’t eat your way to God. I want to make that point.

Some people think that they can eat their way to God. It doesn’t work that way, but you can make it easier to tune into those frequencies. So my role in this next round, until I guess I’m 92, is to share this understanding – and I’m going to say energy – with the world, as much as possible, by awakening as much of the spiritual energy in people as possible. And that’s really what my game plan is at this point.

I am finishing my spiritual autobiography, which kind of rounds out this cycle of 75. I’m in my 11th rewriting, so it’s close, and then it’s just getting it out there. I will have another book, and I never plan to write books. But it’ll be “Spiritual Fasting”.

But my focus now is a spiritual autobiography called “Disappearing into the Nothing”. And my wonderful daughter, who lives in New York, kind of gave me a little bit of a clue about the title. My kids are a little bit involved in all this, and it’s good.

I did write a book called “Conscious Parenting”, but it’s more about conscious Grand-parenting. I’m seeing some openings where grandparents need to be more honored, and take a little bit more leadership, to rebalance our society. I see something there; I don’t know what it is right now. But that’s where we’re going.

But the subtle message I’m also giving, what we call a Meta communication (which you probably know that language; it’s a communication behind the communication), is, “Hey, what are you doing to be getting stronger, more flexible, quicker and more endurance? You’re supposed to be going the other way. How come?”

That message needs to get out, so people can not buy into it like they bought into Type II diabetes being incurable. No, no, no. We can get stronger, wiser, more flexible, and clearer with age. So that’s a meta communication to everything that’s going on.

There aren’t a whole lot of avenues at this moment, but I know that will open up more and more.

Those are like a few of the projects. I have a lot more projects, but it mostly is expanding our humanitarian work. There’s a lot, actually. And I’m actually being freed up to be more active out in the world.

Robyn: Oh, that’s so exciting. So inspiring. Thank you for being one of the few who, at 75, isn’t retiring and doing as little as possible; you’re just giving so much.

Where can people find you on social media? What books do you suggest they purchase of yours? Tell us a little bit more where we can find you.

Dr. Cousens: They can just go to and that directs them into a variety of places.

We have the Tree of Life Foundation, which is a nonprofit. I do a lot of work. I’m basically the Essene leader around the world, so that’s more of a spiritual focus. And we have a gathering with that.

I’m starting now to do three-day meditation retreats. The first will be in March, where we’re giving Shaktipat three times a day for three days, which is real intensive.

Those are all on and I’ll also refer you to which is my Spanish Portuguese, English, three-language website that’s happening.

And then the key books, I think, are different levels of understanding, but “Spiritual Nutrition” is a really important one.  For people interested more in nutrition, a little bit less in spiritual life, it would be “Conscious Eating”, and then “There is a Cure for Diabetes” is more contents-based.

They all have different recipes and things in them. And hopefully within a year my book “Disappearing into the Nothing”, my spiritual autobiography, which will be addressing a whole lot of these things, will be out. Also with poetry that goes along with it. So those are some key books to tune into.

Again, it’s that will direct you to everything, and for the international site. That is probably the easiest way to go about getting it. I am, for the moment, still doing whole person healings. I usually do two and a half to three hours with people. That’s a little bit unique because I try to get to the essence of what’s going on with them, and work on more deeper levels. Because again, in my world, we’re only here to know the divine within ourselves.

Really the focus in all my programs is to help people more deeply connect to their souls, so that is eventually the focus around the world as well.

Robyn: Well, thank you so much for the work you’re doing. Thank you for inspiring me now for 25 years of my own journey, and for being with us today.

Dr. Cousens: It’s my joy, and in line with what I’ve been talking about. I’m happy to be on again.

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