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Ep. 153: Vaccines! Are They Effective? Are they Safe? With Stephanie Seneff, PhD

Robyn Openshaw, MSW - Oct 16, 2019 - This Post May Contain Affiliate Links

I talked to MIT’s senior researcher, Dr. Seneff, about her deep research into vaccine safety and efficacy issues. What she says in a broad ranging review of many current issues in the vaccine controversies will shock and surprise you. She’s also a mother and grandmother, and I asked her, “With over 200 vaccines currently in development–and 70 doses required by age 18, these days–what would YOU do if you were a young mother today?”


Check out the CDC’s required vaccine schedule


  • [03:48] Should I get the flu vaccine? According to our standard-of-care doctors, vaccines are supposed to be the most important strategy for protection against infectious diseases. But are we over-emphasizing the beneficial aspects and underestimating the negative aspects of vaccines?
  • [10:50] The measles outbreak: Japan did a study showing that people who had actually caught the live measles virus in childhood had protection against stroke and cardiovascular disease later. Can getting vaccinated have downsides we don’t understand yet? And do mothers pass vaccine immunity to their baby?
  • [18:49] Vaccine makers are off the hook. A law passed in 1986 removed liability from the makers of vaccines, and is still in effect today. What does that do for their accountability, and our safety?
  • [22:58] There is glyphosate in vaccines. Glyphosate (roundup) can be found in live vaccines. And it’s a contaminant, alongside the mercury, aluminum, and foreign DNA in vaccines as well.
  • [30:49] Is there a connection between vaccines and disease? The autism link is an inflammatory conversation. But what about other problems, like asthma, PANS, PANDAS, and other autoimmune diseases?
  • [35:33] Non-vaccine strategies for a healthy immune system. Organic food and sunlight will do so much for your immune system’s strength.
  • [49:56] The HPV vaccine as an example. The new vaccine is supposed to protect from cervical cancer, but they’ve never shown that it actually does. Now Japan has taken it off its recommended list from all the health issues it may have caused.
  • [54:21] What about the flu vaccine? Dr. Seneff believes getting the flu vaccine can actually lower your resistance to fighting the flu naturally. And, the success rates for guessing the right strains to fight against every year is lower than she would like, as well.


This transcript has been edited for clarity.

Robyn: Hey everyone, it’s Robyn Openshaw. And welcome back to Vibe.

Today I am taking on the single most controversial subject I ever have on this show, and that is vaccines.

I’m interviewing Dr. Stephanie Seneff, who I already interviewed recently on the subject of glyphosate — or roundup — and 700 other herbicides that contain roundup that are so popular in the United States. I’ve already interviewed her on the science around glyphosate, but today we’re talking about vaccines because she’s very much a deep researcher in this as well.

I am going to bring Bobby Kennedy, who’s an attorney and a human rights and medical freedom activist, on the show very soon as well. Those will be my two deep dives and interviews on the subject of vaccines.

You’ll get a sense in this conversation (in which I get pretty excited) talking about the censorship that’s going on. On the worldwide web, in movies, books, and information available to people, and on social media, anybody at all who’s speaking up about children’s safety issues.

And, the revolving door of our government watchdog agencies that are supposed to watch over the pharmaceutical industry are really all the same people, and the incest that’s going on there and the problems that this is causing for vaccine safety and for good vaccine testing. And we’re talking about vaccine efficacy issues.

We’re digging deep here. We’re going to talk to Bobby Kennedy and get his take later, but you’re going to definitely get a sense of my own journey having raised four children in a climate where nobody around me — friends, family physicians — were supportive of me doing anything besides what the medical oligopoly dictated to me.

If you didn’t hear my previous episode with Dr. Stephanie Seneff, she’s amazing. She has degrees from MIT in biology and in electrical engineering and computer science. She’s also an expert on artificial intelligence. She has published 30 peer reviewed journal papers, and right now she’s offering a book on the glyphosate and vaccine issues.

Welcome back to the Vibe show, Dr. Stephanie Seneff.

Dr. Seneff: Thank you for having me.

Robyn: Today we’re talking about vaccines. And as I told you before we started recording, I have been nervous to touch this topic. And yet, it’s a bigger topic than ever [before] because of 30 different state governments in the 2019 legislative sessions considering whether to ban parents from being able to make choices, medical choices. It’s a huge issue right now.

Let’s go back to the whole premise. Vaccines are supposed to be, according to our standard of care doctors, the most important strategy for protection against infectious diseases. CDC puts that message out, and every year they scare us that, especially, the elderly and the young need to get their flu shot. Do you agree with this, and why or why not?

Dr. Seneff: I do not. I most definitely do not. And that’s been a migration for me. As I’ve learned more and more about vaccines, I have continually moved in the direction of more and more skeptical of the value of vaccines.

I think that we are over-emphasizing the beneficial aspects and we are grossly underestimating the negative aspects of vaccines.

I think if you could do a fair calculation you would see that the risk benefit ratio is not at all clear, and that people should have the right to decide for their children whether or not to vaccinate. I think that is the most crucial thing that we need to do. We need to go the other direction: instead of having mandates, we should have recommendations. The government recommends these vaccines at these times, and then people have an option to opt out with no more than just, “I don’t want my child to get that vaccine.” This is where I believe we need to be.

Robyn: I’m going to put my government hat on and say, what if I were a government official or somebody at the CDC? And you say people should have the right to choose which vaccines they are going to get when they’re going to get them, if they get them at all.

The idea is that there’s this thing called herd immunity. I have to sacrifice my child, potentially, if my child has a reaction. And reactions are pretty rampant, and reactions can be life threatening. There’s children and babies who die even in the testing of vaccines: the new one by Sanofi that came out — 6-in-1, that’s just been approved in the last year — in the insert it says six babies died in the testing of this vaccine. And they don’t even test it very much.

What do you think about that? That I have to sacrifice, potentially, the safety of my child? And now in some states, even if your child has had a massive reaction or autoimmune disease or autoimmune reaction to a previous vaccine, you still can’t get an exemption. What’s your thought about this idea of herd immunity? And then I have to sacrifice my kid for the greater good?

Dr. Seneff: I think it’s a flawed argument. And in fact, I would almost say herd immune dysfunction because with vaccines… Herd immunity is a nice theory and it works well with natural infection, but it actually gets completely messed up with vaccines.

I will give measles as the example because right now we are in a very bad pickle with respect to measles. Because we’ve got all this last generation that has been highly vaccinated. The vaccine immune immunity wears off very quickly, they’re finding out. And in fact, I remember a recent study that was very striking. It was a study where they had a group of people; they tested their immune function and it was low, and they gave them a vaccine and the vaccine boosted it back up again. But within six months, that boost was completely gone.

We keep on adding more and more booster shots because we’re finding that immunity is waning. What we’re having now is that 20 year old women who are getting pregnant no longer have the immune function against the measles virus to be able to pass onto their children.

The people who are most vulnerable are the infants from in the first year of life. Normally they get immunity from their mom, both in utero and nursing through the breast milk. And that whole system is breaking down because the vaccine is not doing its job the way that the natural infection would have.

This presents us with a real dilemma because you cannot give a measles vaccine to a pregnant woman. They know that that’s a very bad idea. So they have no way to protect those infants from an exposure if measles does break out because of this flawed immune process that was implemented through the vaccination policy.

Robyn: The measles has sort of brought it to the forefront, and of course CDC and the big pharmaceutical conglomerate really uses it as a Trojan horse to get people very scared and getting lots of vaccines and multiple vaccines at one time. And of course, babies are far more at risk when it’s three and even six vaccines all at once. I think that that trend is terrifying.

Dr. Seneff: Also getting vaccines so early. Getting the hepatitis B shot at birth is just absolutely asinine, and getting a whole bunch of vaccines at two months? The immune system doesn’t mature until the end of the first year of life. So a lot of these vaccines are being wasted. They’re not having any good effect. And you’re pouring aluminum into the child’s body, and aluminum is extremely toxic. They need the aluminum to make these vaccines actually work. So they’re stuck between a rock and a hard place.

They don’t seem to mind injecting a lot of toxic chemicals into the baby’s body, which to me just seems horrendous when you think about that. You have to really believe that the benefit you’re gaining is so substantial that it’s worth that kind of risk. And I personally do not, with these vaccines that have a lot of aluminum and mercury in them.

The flu vaccine often has mercury. They’re now giving that routinely to pregnant women, which I find absolutely astonishing. And a mercury-containing flu vaccine to a pregnant woman. That’s just ridiculous. And they haven’t never even studied whether the vaccines are safe during pregnancy and yet they’re now recommending them and putting pressure on pregnant women to get vaccines with just really, really surprising.

Robyn:  Let’s back up to the hepatitis B vaccine delivered at birth. I said no to it in the hospital because, let’s see, your exposure is going to be what? Sexually transmitted or drug IV?

Dr. Seneff: Right.

Robyn: Okay. So, no newborns are having risky sex or shooting up and you’re going to lose your immunity pretty quickly, we now know.

Dr. Seneff: Yes, it’s amazing isn’t it, that that that seems plausible?

The Chinese have done a lot of studies on measles and they’re having a real problem with measles outbreaks these days. And I’ve read a couple of papers from the Chinese, and in China they’re showing that the live virus — the virus that’s in the air, the one that’s available naturally — is mutating to the point where the vaccines change to not effective anymore as to protect from that virus.

That’s another problem that we have, that we have to maintain up-to-date versions of the vaccine with respect to the actual live virus measles that’s out there.

Robyn: Did you read this year (we’re recording this in 2019) this past winter with all of the media about the supposedly measles outbreaks — which I think still was only in the hundreds, I don’t know that it really qualifies as some kind of epidemic — there was the US naval ship, the USS (I’m trying to think what the name of the ship was) but there was a measles outbreak on the ship and they couldn’t come in.

Do you know much about that? Do you want to comment on that case and what it showed us?

Dr. Seneff: I think we’re just way too hung up on measles. Measles is actually beneficial. They’ve done studies. Japan did a study where they showed that people who had actually caught the live measles virus in childhood had, many, many years later, protection against stroke and cardiovascular disease.

We don’t understand how these viruses are working, what they’re doing. And in fact, viruses can have a beneficial effect that we don’t understand. And not just measles. I think the mumps virus has also been shown that getting the infection affords protection against chronic disease. But getting the vaccine does not, it doesn’t work the same way because it’s not a natural infection.

Robyn:  Just to finish the thought on the USS — the USS Constitution, I think, I wish I could remember exactly — basically all of the people who had the outbreak, who are out on the water, they were not allowed back in because they had the measles. Every single one of them was that was fully vaccinated. They had to be.

Dr. Seneff: That shows that the vaccine is failing. And as I said, this study that was done showed that all the immunity that you gained with a vaccine was gone within six months in these people. So how can you expect it to last if you have your vaccine at the age of three, and then you’re 20 years old and have your child, how do you expect those antibodies to still be there?

We’re facing a really big crisis now because we’ve got all these young mothers who are not protecting their infants. I think this is going to really get worse and worse over time, and we can’t really unravel this without a lot of pain. I think, even if we were just to suddenly decide the vaccine isn’t working, let’s quit, we’ve now got this situation where there are all these infants that are very vulnerable because of the vaccine.

Robyn:  I think it’s really new information, and I don’t know that very many people are aware of this. It’s fairly new, it hasn’t been very well documented that a vaccine gives you immunity — if it gives you immunity — for a maximum of two to five years. You just mentioned that some evidence is that that immunity, to the extent you even have it, wears off in six months. And people are unaware of that.

Once you see the documentation of that, the whole premise of what a vaccine is for completely falls apart. And it also casts new light where we have to look back at the CDC and the World Health Organization.

I want to ask you about the revolving door of pharmaceutical executives that seem to man the watchdog agencies. You’ve got the people on the watchdog agencies coming out of executives of Pharma and vice versa. It doesn’t seem like a very effective system, but they’ve claimed credit (and it’s what people always say, they say, “Oh, well you weren’t there for the time of polio and smallpox.” Well, nobody was really there for the time of smallpox), “We got rid of polio. You didn’t know anybody in an iron lung like I did.”

Prevailing wisdom — especially for people over the age of 50 — is that vaccines ended polio. And I think that with the fact that we look back and we now know that for decades and decades there were millions and millions and millions of people who are not protected. Based on that new finding for those diseases, then it’s not possible that polio and smallpox disappeared because of the vaccine. You want to talk a little bit about that?

Dr. Seneff: Certainly, and in fact, I recommend a book called Dissolving Illusions by Suzanne Humphreys.

It’s an excellent book. It was one the first books I read on vaccines. She goes into the whole history of the polio situation. It’s quite interesting because you can see the polio virus actually was not causing paralysis in the early days. It tracks exactly with the rise and fall of DDT.

As DDT was used more and more, there’s a lag of a few years and then you start to get this rise in paralytic, a response to polio. And then when the DDT was banned and [the use] came back down again, the paralysis [rate] went down as well. That’s very, very well [correlated] DDT. And of course we recognize DDT was toxic back in the 1960s because of Silent Spring and DDT got banned.

That was really what solved the problem of paralytic polio. Now we’re getting paralysis actually from the vaccine itself. In India, they have, I think, many more cases of paralysis following the polio vaccine than they do have actual polio infection. The vaccine is actually causing the very thing that it’s supposed to protect from.

The combination of the toxic chemicals in the environment working with the polio virus somehow causes this paralysis effect that we see. It’s, again, the toxic chemicals. If you could reduce the toxic chemicals, the viruses would be much safer. The infection would be much safer.

Robyn:  I also saw — and I believe it was derived from CDC statistics — the arc of both polio and smallpox was on the decline, massively on the decline, when the vaccine was introduced. Did the vaccine get credit for something it didn’t deserve at all?

Dr. Seneff: I suspect so. In fact, I really wonder whether these viruses have an actual lifespan of their own, that when they first appear, they can be very damaging. And then as the body and the virus sort of collaborate with each other to try to figure out how to make the virus less toxic in some way, to the point where it just becomes sort of a mild condition over time, it’s not so deadly anymore. I think there’s sort of a natural progression of these viruses towards a safer form that can cause something more like a cold rather than something severe.

In fact, when I was a child, we expected to get measles. I remember it came through. There was an epidemic of it in my town. We were encouraged to make sure that we got exposed because this was going to be an opportunity. If we waited longer, we were going to be sicker. You want to get it while you’re young.

I was in fourth grade at the time and pretty much everybody in my class got it as it came through. I had a very mild case. I got a two week vacation from school, which was delightful. And my siblings got it at the same time. So we had a good time. And none of us felt sick. We had a few spots on her stomach. It was nothing.

Robyn:  I had the measles too. And so did my six brothers and my sister. And the chicken pox. And of course we’re in this situation now where modern medicine wants us to believe we should be vaccinated against all those things.

I have read that there are over 200 vaccines currently in development. I was listening to a colleague’s podcast; he recently launched his podcast and he’s dealing with myths in medicine and health and wellness. And he interviewed someone who’s a naturopathic doctor on vaccine issues.

My jaw was on the ground because this person is not at all aware of modern issues that have arisen in the last 10 years with vaccines, and this quote unquote “expert” that he interviewed said that people are liars who say that there’s been a meteoric rise in the number of required vaccines. And that it’s a lie. That’s a quote, “a lie that people are required to get 70 doses of vaccines.”

I went on the CDC’s website (and we will put this link in the show notes), and I counted them. And depending on a few choices that you might make, especially with the flu vaccine, it’s 68 to 70 doses.

Dr. Seneff: I know, it’s insane, isn’t it? It’s just frightening to think about all those vaccines being poured into those young infants.

I think that the story relates to the 1986 law.

Back in the early 1980s there were some very severe reactions to vaccines, particularly the DPT vaccine. And there were concerns that the company was going to stop manufacturing it because it was too unsafe. They were getting too many lawsuits.

The government decided to pass a law that said that vaccine makers were off the hook and that if you had an injury, you would go through something run by the U.S. government called Vaccine Court. Instead of a normal legal pathway, you would go through this vaccine court and the U.S. government would be the one that you would present your case to, and get compensated for it.

As a consequence, the vaccine makers are having a field day because they can turn out vaccines left and right without having done proper study. And if there is injury, they don’t have to worry because they’re not going to get the lawsuits. I think that is a very serious problem.

I would do two things differently if I were in charge. One is to make that all the vaccines could be recommendations. The government could decide “We’re going to recommend this vaccine at this time for these kids. You don’t have to do it if you don’t want to, just say no, no questions asked.” Number one.

Number two is get rid of that 1986 law, completely remove it. Make the vaccine manufacturers responsible. When somebody gets injured by a vaccine, they can go to court, regular court, and have a hearing, have a trial. And I think if we did those two things, the whole picture with respect to the vaccines would change dramatically over time.

Robyn:  Let me get this straight. Since the law in 1986, the government stepped in because the pharmaceutical manufacturer had so much liability for adverse reactions related to the DPT vaccine — which is Diphtheria, pertussis and tetanus delivered all at once. That means your infant body has to mount a defense against three diseases at once, which it never has to do in any place in nature. And you’re saying that in 1986, and since then, this U.S. vaccine court steps in and decides whether an injured child gets compensation, and our government pays the injured child’s family, not the pharmaceutical company. Am I right?

Dr. Seneff: That’s right. In fact, the U.S. taxpayer ends up paying for it, and there’s a tax levied on every vaccine that goes into a pool to support those costs.

Robyn:  How much has the vaccine court paid out just to vaccine-injured children with autism?

Dr. Seneff: Zero.

Well, they have not paid out anything for autism. Some of the autistic kids have gotten compensated for other things that they suffer from, but they are vehement about denying that vaccines cause autism and they will fight. They will spend as much money as they need to and hire as many lawyers as possible to make sure that that doesn’t get through.

No one has been able to get compensation in the United States. There’s someone in Italy that got compensation for autism, but no one has succeeded in the United States in getting compensated for autism caused by vaccines.

Robyn:  The $4 billion that the American taxpayers have paid to vaccine-injured children are for a lot of different things, and none of them are autism.

Dr. Seneff: That’s right. They know that if they do one, they’re going to have a floodgate. And they can’t let that floodgate open up.

Robyn:  It’s kind of like how the American Dental Association will never (I’ve said this on record before) it will never ever admit that mercury in your teeth causes all kinds of neurological problems and cancer, because the minute it does, they’ll be opening themselves up to the biggest class action lawsuit in the history of the world. So they just never will. They would never ever do that no matter how much evidence there is.

Dr. Seneff: That’s right. It’s the same thing. It’s interesting. The same thing, of course, with glyphosate itself, because if once the lawsuits start breaking loose on glyphosate, that’s going to be Bayer’s downfall, I would imagine.

Robyn:  We’ve talked to you about both vaccines and glyphosate; separate issues, but kind of related. There’s a lot of glyphosate in vaccines. Is that a contaminant?

Dr. Seneff: Yes. That’s a shocking story actually.

There are two people who have tested vaccines as far as I’m aware of: Anthony Samsel and Zen Honeycutt.

Zen Honeycutt is the founder of Moms Across America, which is an advocacy group fighting, trying to get the message out, that glyphosate is toxic. And she ran tests on a number of different vaccines. Anthony did pretty much the same set of vaccines independently.

Both of them found live glyphosate in several of the vaccines. And interestingly, there was a pattern: the ones that had the glyphosate were the ones that were live virus vaccines, as opposed to the ones that are basically adding an antigen and mixing up stuff that doesn’t actually have viruses in it. So the ones that had the potential to actually cause disease, like the MMR (the MMR has three live viruses in that vaccine), they’re weakened, but they’re not dead.

The reason why, I believe, is because the nutritional supplements that they’re given in culture contain gelatin and fetal bovine serum and eggs, chicken eggs. All three of those — the chicken egg, the bovine serum (which is the blood of a calf fetus), and the gelatin, which is dried from collagen taken from cows and pigs [feet] that are fed heavy doses of glyphosate — all three of those are most likely be contaminated with glyphosate. The glyphosate is getting into the vaccine as a consequence of that.

Robyn:  Those are contaminants.

Let’s use like DPT as an example since we’ve already mentioned it (again, it’s a vaccine against diphtheria, pertussis, and tetanus all in one).

I was studying vaccines extensively as I was making decisions for my four children. My first child, who’s 26 now, I was giving him all the vaccines on schedule and he became very, very ill, like severe autoimmune issues, major asthma (maybe you can, in a second here, comment on if there’s links between asthma allergies, Eczema, which are of course are a cluster). They were putting on all kinds of steroids bronchodilators; he was in and out of hospitals, emergency rooms. He was on so many drugs, he fell below the fifth percentile.

That’s really where my whole journey started. That led to this place where I have this podcast and a big following and I teach them what I’m learning.

I started studying and I read books that were compendiums of the literature available at the time. This is 25 years ago. I decided that the least risky vaccine would be tetanus, but it’s hard to get your pediatrician to even admit that they can get it separately from diphtheria and Pertussis, which would put my immune-compromised child at great risk, I discovered. And tetanus, nobody gets it [from the vaccine]. Nobody dies of it over the age of 50; of course back then we didn’t know that the immunity wears off.

I didn’t really see the point of it. Nobody dies of the tetanus vaccine alone. But your PR, your pediatrician, doesn’t want to get you the tetanus vaccine alone because they don’t stock it, and it’s a hassle, and they’re not going to make any money. They need to make a certain amount of money in any one visit or else they really can’t even cover their overhead. Pediatricians have like 85% overhead. They really need to get a certain amount of revenue out of each well-baby visit. And that’s an issue with it.

What else? We talked about contaminants. There’s the dead bacteria of three different infectious diseases.

Dr. Seneff: It’s fragments. It’s antigen, the actual proteins that are from the bacteria in the tetanus.

Robyn:  Okay. And what else is in it? What other chemicals and adjuvants?

Dr. Seneff: Aluminum is a serious one. DPT has aluminum in it, and aluminum is extremely neurotoxic. In fact, a recent study on autism brains post-mortem by Chris Exley found shockingly high levels of aluminum in the autistic brains. So I think the aluminum is accumulating in the brain in response to all the vaccines. Many of the vaccines contain aluminum, and it’s a very strong neurotoxin. It’s extremely toxic to the brain.

Robyn:  Do you think that that’s part of why we see these clusters in families?

I know at least four different families where there’s two — and in one case, three — different children who are autistic. Each of them tell me, “I saw the regression after the vaccine,” and people get so angry about that. They think that people are liars for making the link between autism and vaccines.

But if you’re a vaccine-injured parent and you saw your child completely developing on schedule, and doing everything — talking and smiling and making eye contact — and they get the vaccine and all that disappears… To them, they don’t really care what you think about it.

Do you think that is it some kind of metabolizing aluminum thing? What’s your theory?

Dr. Seneff: It’s definitely only part of the problem, for sure. And of course the mercury as well. Both of those are very toxic. There’s also formaldehyde; there’s DNA contamination found in the HPV vaccine. Human DNA is very — or DNA in general — very dangerous.

One thing that’s happening, I think, is that the vaccine is causing an acute reaction at the site where it’s injected, to the point where the cells can die so quickly that they don’t get a chance to do a proper shutdown. And that’s when the cells will then release DNA from themselves as they burst open. That DNA becomes exposed as human DNA, your own human DNA, that’s exposed to the immune cells because of this cell dying inappropriately.

That DNA can cause things like Lupus, autoimmune diseases, that are very serious because of the exposure to your DNA that has gotten loose from your cells because the cells were so badly injured by that vaccine at the site of injection.

That’s a condition called ASIA autoimmune syndrome, induced by adjuvants. Several papers have been written about that syndrome that they think may be caused, in part, through that mechanism. They actually found DNA in the HPV vaccine, and that’s an even more serious problem. Because that’s foreign DNA, so your immune cells will be very sensitive to it.

So, aluminum, mercury, DNA and of course glyphosate. Also there’ve been found toxic metals. Some people in Italy have been doing research on vaccines and they’re finding several different toxic metals in the vaccines that are not supposed to be ingredients. They’re not listed as ingredients, but they’re apparently there as contaminants. And we’re not sure how those are getting in there, but those are going to also contribute.

Each time you inject, it’s very dangerous to inject something into the body, and you really have to be careful to minimize risk by not putting anything dangerous in that formulation that you’re injecting into the body. I think it’s extremely difficult to design a safe vaccine.

Robyn:  We’ve talked a little bit about the autism thing. It’s obviously a very inflammatory conversation. Gosh, you see it on Facebook, people just blowing each other up and very uncivil conversation. People saying things to each other that we would never say to each other face to face. There’s just not a conversation about it where both sides come together. The medical position, which takes up the cause of these pharmaceutical companies who are making, let’s just talk about it, billions of dollars on every vaccine that is released. It is a for-profit industry. Let’s just get really clear about that.

But in addition to autism, we’ve got these meteoric rises in chronic diseases. Maybe you can tell me, is there a connection? Like I said, my son was diagnosed with asthma. He was a healthy nine pound baby. I started vaccinating him and thing just started to take. There’s asthma, there’s PANS and PANDAS seem to be massively on the rise. There’s ADHD, so many autoimmune diseases.

Are there studies that point to a causal link between these epidemics and vaccines?

Dr. Seneff: Yes.

In fact, Dawson has published, I think with collaborators, papers that looked at homeschool children in the United States, and they did a survey. It’s a parent survey where they filled out forms asking them a bunch of questions. Some of the homeschooled kids were vaccinated, and some were not. And when they looked at the differences in the raw reports of the frequency of ADHD and autism and asthma, XMR, all those different childhood autoimmune diseases, they were much, much higher consistently in the vaccinated versus unvaccinated children in this database. It was quite striking.

I think that’s very strong evidence. This is something the government should have done a long time ago, is to look at the vaccinated versus unvaccinated children and look at their frequency of these different diseases.

Robyn:  I was watching some content by Dr. Bob Zajac, maybe you know him, but he has a PhD In Special Ed. He has an MBA, but he’s also a pediatrician. He’s a medical doctor. And he says he was the very worst of the vaccine bullies out there among doctors. He bought into it and he went hard. I personally was kicked out of a pediatrics practice when my third child was 18 months old. I had to admit that not all my children were current and they said, “Get out.”

Dr. Seneff: Wow.

Robyn: Yeah. But he now doesn’t vaccinate his own children. He’s the father of eight, and he stands out there as a lightning rod, willing to apparently jeopardize his own license to speak up about the need for vaccine safety. Like you do.

Like him, you’ve really taken on a position to speak up on behalf of children that isn’t very popular with a lot of people who are in a lot of different mainstream industries.

I think I mentioned to you, when I interviewed you about glyphosate recently, that I had people unfollowing me and yelling at me when I just posted a link about how vaccines have 25 times more glyphosate in them than any kind of safe limit.

I clicked into the Facebook pages of these people who were very upset with me and the first six that I clicked into (and then I quit clicking), they were all either pharmacists or nurses or doctors. They make a living spreading the word that vaccines will help us be healthy.

There are going to be people who say that I am not a good mom, that I am being irresponsible in asking that we do a better job of vaccine safety in asking you to share what a little bit more about what the research tells us about the links to these diseases. But you don’t believe that the best strategy or the best approach to strong immune function is vaccines. What do we need to do so that our children have stronger immune function?

Because they clearly don’t. We have a big problem. Dr. Zajac said that his unimmunized patients are the healthiest. His partially immunized patients are the second healthiest. And his fully immunized patients are clearly the least healthy. And he said he could no longer deny that. That’s when he started really speaking up.

What are the better strategies to help children be healthier and have strong immune systems?

Dr. Seneff: First of all, I want to really congratulate that doctor for being willing to speak up. He’s got the data that we need so desperately to show the world that these vaccines are not beneficial.

Certainly, organic food. I think that’s number one, because in my studies of glyphosate, I believe glyphosate is disrupting the innate immune system. And we have a very powerful innate immune system that does not depend upon antibody. The whole basis of the vaccine is that it’s trying to get you to develop antibodies to those specific antigens that are presented in the vaccine. And those antibodies then will be able to very quickly glom onto that virus if it comes your way, and mark it so that the immune cells can quickly clear it.

If you have a healthy immune system, you don’t need antibodies. And in fact, in children who are very healthy, often the vaccine doesn’t take for them because they’re able to clear the measles virus without having to invoke the antibody system at all because their innate immune system is so strong, they can just wipe out that virus very quickly.

It’s ironic that the kids who are the most healthy are the ones that are least likely to pick up on the antibody that the vaccine is supposed to be delivering to keep them protected for future exposure.

So, staying healthy, I think, is most important. Eat a very healthy diet, stay away from processed foods, eat organic whole foods. Obviously stay away from glyphosate.

Also, get out in the sunshine. Don’t use sunscreen. I think sunscreen is actually protecting you from Vitamin D and you’re getting a major deficiency in Vitamin D as a consequence of aggressive avoidance of the sun or aggressive use of sunscreen. Sunscreen actually has aluminum in it as well. That aluminum can absorb through the skin and contribute to your aluminum burden.

I think the sun is a very, very healthy resource that we are neglecting, and in fact we are trying to actively avoid. And that is a big mistake. It Will help to strengthen the immune system because it’ll maintain the high levels of Vitamin D.

Robyn:  I totally agree with that. There’s not much that’s more correlated to strong immune function than strong blood serum levels of vitamin D and so, and if you have a long winter and you’re not in the sun, then be taking good d three plus k. So but the sun’s always going to be the best source.

Let me ask you a really hard question.

What would you do if you were a new parent? Let’s assume that you have the right in the state that you live in, you’re back to before you had your children — your children are grown, now you have grandchildren — and let’s assume that you have the right to sign waivers at the health department. If you sign a waiver at the health department as a young parent, then you’re agreeing that if there’s an outbreak of Pertussis or it’s something that’s communicable that they vaccinate for, that the school will contact you and you have to take your child out of school.

FYI, in 25 years of my children being in the schools, I was contacted exactly zero times about outbreaks of any of those. And my children were in public schools and charter schools, all of them large. It’s not like they were homeschooled, or in a Co-op, where there’s much lower exposure.

Let’s leave on the table options, like spreading vaccines out. I’m not giving three to six at a time like they are doing right now. When we see an infant death they seem to be really highly correlated to the 3- or 6-at-a-time. That just seems unconscionable to do to an infant immune system.

When I was making decisions about my children 25 years ago, reading in great depth (and just because I didn’t follow the pediatrics mandates at the time does not make me an inferior parent, because people who follow the vaccine schedule love to make that argument; essentially what’s implied is, “I’m a good parent and you’re not.” I don’t feel like that’s true at all), people who opt out of or make different decisions with vaccines are not inferior parents. We love our children every bit as much as those who vaccinate.

Do leave on the table, if you would, Dr. Seneff, doing some and skipping others. What would you do? Nobody’s going to come take your kids away. They’re all grown now. What do you feel like you could be comfortable saying to people making these kinds of decisions?

Dr. Seneff: I had a gradual movement towards the view that vaccines aren’t not beneficial. So I’ll start taking each vaccine and considering the risk benefit ratio, I could certainly pick some that I would definitely be very afraid of, such as hepatitis B, DTap, MMR and the HPV vaccine for the teenagers, which I absolutely hate. I think that one’s number one: don’t get that vaccine. Luckily it’s not mandated in most states at the moment. But that one, clearly, the risks outweigh the benefits for sure, I think, with HPV vaccine, .

MMR is very dangerous because, for one reason, it had the highest level of glyphosate by far of any of the vaccines that were tested. And MMR has also been very strongly linked to autism.

The movie Vaxxed, for example, tells the story of Andrew Wakefield, which is a very sad story because he was onto the connection between MMR and autism back in the late 1990s.

He published a paper describing certain cases where these kids were developing fine, and then they got the MMR vaccine and then they regressed into autism. And he got really shot down for having done that. He lost his ability to practice medicine in the UK and the paper was retracted and he has basically been victimized.

You know, people now use the verb “getting the Wakefield” to refer to what happened to him. And that that gave a lesson to everybody else who might think there might be a connection between MMR and autism to basically stay silent. Because if they valued their career and all the time they’d spent getting educated, they were not going to take that risk.

He was identifying the link between the gut problems and autism way back then, which, that’s been denied. But now today there are many, many papers coming out showing that the autistic kids have a disrupted gut microbiome and that is clearly a factor in their autism.

The measles virus is a live virus that is getting into the gut and infecting the gut, causing these disruption of the gut microbiome and then also causing a leaky gut barrier and leaky brain barrier, allowing the antigens in the proteins of the virus to infiltrate into the brain. The virus itself could actually infect the brain. And once the brain’s immune system reacts to the virus, then it responds to the proteins, particularly the Hemagglutinin in the measles virus, with antibodies that can then attack the myelin sheath.

I think this is a pretty clear explanation, in my view, for how MMR is causing autism through this molecular mimicry. Where the protein that the measles virus produces happens to have a peptide sequence that is very closely matched to a similar peptide sequence in myelin basic protein. Which is a crucial protein in the myelin sheath, lining all the axons in the brain. The neurons depend upon myelin to be able to communicate signals. So when you start having the immune system attacking the myelin sheath, you’ve got a lot of problems with the brain.

I think that’s a very good explanation. More than that, it turns out glycosade, which is in a contaminant in the MMR vaccine, I believe it’s substituting for glycine during protein synthesis. We talked about that in our last interview. If this is true, then it can substitute for glycine in that particular sequence in the hemagglutinin.

There are actually three glycine residues within a 20-peptide sequence that matches with the myelin basic protein. Both of them, the myelin basic protein and the hemagglutinin, have these three highly conserved glycine residues within that sequence. If those are substituted by glyphosate, that’s going to make the measles hemagglutinin much more allergenic than it would otherwise be, much more likely to induce an overactive immune response to that protein.

There’s a series of papers by Professor Singh, S-I-N-G-H, and collaborators going back to the 1990s where they showed that the autistic kids had extremely high levels of antibodies to the hemagglutinin from the measles virus in the vaccine, and that the autistic kids who had these high levels also had antibodies in the brain to the myelin basic protein.

60% of the autistic kids had these elevated levels of antibodies to the measles; in other words, the vaccine took very, very well. And of those 60% nearly all of them also had the evidence of the autoantibodies to the myelin basic protein. So this I think is a very good explanation for precisely how MMR could be causing autism.

Robyn: You mentioned the movie Vaxxed and I want to bring that up. And you also mentioned Dr. Andrew Wakefield, where it’s become a verb “to get Wakefielded.” He was hired by the U.S. government and then when he said that the findings didn’t match with what the government/pharmaceutical industry wanted him to say, there was a concerted effort, it appears, to destroy his career and destroy his credibility.

I just want to mention that Vaxxed, the movie, is no longer available. De Niro in it. Bobby Kennedy, who I am going to be interviewing here — he’s a great American hero like you are — is speaking up and calling attention to evidence that there’s a concerted effort to deep six it, and eliminate it, and not allow people access to it. It is being eliminated from anywhere in the public domain.

We now have Netflix banning Vaxxed and other films, and books that explore vaccine safety issues and vaccine efficacy issues. We have Amazon banning books; the two books by physicians who review the scientific literature that I read 25 years ago, you can’t buy their books anymore. Facebook has banned over a thousand pages for speaking up about anything to do with vaccines. Pinterest has banned everybody who has said anything about vaccines that isn’t entirely in keeping with the medical position. Google is completely throttling anybody with content that they deem antivaxs.

What do you feel when people call you antivax?

Dr. Seneff: [Laughter]

Well, I have no question that the vaccines are a problem. I think the children in this country are suffering greatly because of it. And it’s incredible the way we are being railroaded into accepting the idea that the vaccines are absolutely necessary as a part of a health program. And I guess it’s just because there is so much money involved.

The pediatricians make most of their money, and make a lot of their money, off of the vaccines. And the CDC actually has a bunch of patents so they get money off of the vaccines. Merck has many; vaccines are among its main income in America. The company that makes, for example, the HPV vaccine, they’re all they’re all interested in getting us to accept the idea that vaccines are good.

It’s a huge business for the industry. When you have something that’s mandatory, that every child in the country gets it, that is such an easy product to sell without even having to do any kind of advertising. It’s such a tremendous boon for all these industries and government people to benefit from the money that they gained by virtue of having the system in place. That they are absolutely determined to make sure that it’s protected.

What amazes me is that they don’t mind that the children are being injured. I don’t understand that there are human beings who don’t mind that the children are being endangered by these vaccines.

Robyn: The marketing is brilliant. In terms of any new vaccine that comes to market, not only do you get to pretend to be a great hero across the globe by preventing disease — whether or not it’s actually true — your market is every single human being on the planet. Obviously there’s a rush to market. There’s a lot of pressure; there’s billions of dollars being spent because it’s such an incredibly wealthy industry.

Usually when I’m doing an interview, I don’t make some kind of grand-standing statement, but I just want to say this, and get your reaction if you feel the same. But I reject the term anti-vax. I am for people’s health. I am for children’s health. I am for medical freedom. I think that word marginalizes, and it gaslights us. It tries to make us crazy. And I don’t like it. I don’t like it when people say I’m anti-vaccine because I speak up, and feel like we should be able to ask questions, and that our watchdog agencies and the government should actually be watchdog agencies.

How do you feel about it?

Dr. Seneff: No, I agree.

I think that we live in the land of the free, supposedly, and we have freedom of speech, yet here we are being censored and in a major way it. It doesn’t fit our national standard for our country. It really puts us in a bad light, the country itself, to be doing all of this censorship on information.

If you read the literature and the actual published papers, as I have done, you can see that there are many, many dangers associated with vaccination. It is not a done deal, that they’re so wonderful that there’s no downside, or that the number of kids that are being injured is so small that we don’t need to worry about it. That is just simply not true. And as I said, they’re getting more and more dangerous because they’re being contaminated with these chemicals.

The HPV vaccine is a very good example. That’s a new vaccine introduced for teenagers. It’s supposed to protect from cervical cancer, but they’ve never shown that it actually does.

The original vaccine had four different strains of the HPV virus in it, and what happened was that you get antibodies to those four, which then allows the remaining strains to have a field day because their main competitors are taken out. And there’s over a hundred different strains of HPV.

They realized it wasn’t enough, because some of these other strains were becoming more prevalent and taking over and causing disease even. And even people who got vaccinated were getting cervical cancer at a very young age, which is incredibly improbable because cervical cancer is mostly a disease of the people over 50.

Young people are getting cervical cancer, having been vaccinated, probably because it was allowing these other strains to grow, which could be more toxic than the ones that they’re immunizing you against.

They changed from four to nine in the recent version of the HPV vaccine, nine different strains, more than twice as much of an extremely toxic form of aluminum that they’ve put into that vaccine. So, now it’s even more likely to cause nasty side effects.

Young women are getting taken down by the HPV vaccine. There’s been many deaths. There’ve been women who have been permanently disabled, to the point where they can’t get out of bed. There’s a lot of stuff on the web where you can see these injuries that are happening to women getting HPV vaccine.

There’s a recent study that came out that showed that women who had been vaccinated with the HPV vaccine, married women, had significantly fewer pregnancies than married women who had not been vaccinated with HPV. I think the HPV vaccine is causing infertility and we do have an epidemic in infertility today in this country.

That vaccine makes absolutely no sense to me and I do not understand how they keep on pushing. Obviously it’s the money. Merck is making a tremendous amount of money off of that vaccine, and the sort of lovely idea that you could vaccinate against cancer. And that’s so appealing to people that they want to believe it. But that vaccine was very, very dangerous and I would not recommend for anybody to get it.

So, MMR, HPV, hepatitis B and DPT, those are all nasty vaccines. Either because of the aluminum or the glyphosate contamination or the possibility of an autoimmune reaction or the infertility that can be caused by the HPV vaccine.

Robyn:  I feel like there’s a lot of pressure on teenagers. Lots of teenage girls, lots of parents are writing me. I think about once a week I get somebody sending me a Facebook message saying, “This is what my doctor said about why my child should get the HPV vaccine,” especially before they do this or that activity or this or that travel.

There seems to be an increasing amount of pressure on parents to get it, at the same time that there’s just a flood of data coming in about the negative health consequences and even deaths and infertility. I don’t know if you mentioned it.

Dr. Seneff: Infertility. Yes.

It’s interesting because Japan actually adopted the HPV, made it part of their schedule, and the Japanese were very compliant. Something like 95% of the parents got their teenagers vaccinated with HPV. They had a lot of nasty reactions and there was a lot of chatter on social media in Japan about the reactions to this vaccine, and people were posting things, and as a consequence the public got very wary of it and [wanted] the government to take away that recommendation on that because of that reaction.

Now, the number of people in Japan that are vaccinated is down to something like 5%. It was very quickly that they stopped vaccinating HPV. So Japan is really setting a good standard for the rest of us to think about HPV and whether we really want it.

Robyn: When I was studying these issues 25 years ago, there were very few vaccines in Japan’s schedule in the first two years of life, and their SIDS rate was something like 20% of ours. That really influenced me because Japan is a first world country. We’re not comparing the U.S. to India or Bangladesh. That gave me the courage to do something different than what the pediatricians are pressured to do by their governing boards.

One last question I would like to ask you about: the issues with the flu vaccine.

Specifically, talk about what is the flu vaccine for winter of 2020. How is that decision made, and why should that factor into our decision to get the flu vaccine or not?

P.S., I got the flu vaccine once. It was in grad school because I had to work on the children’s unit in the State Hospital and they forced me to do it or they were going to fire me. And I have never been so sick. I was sick all winter and I’m a person who almost never gets sick. So, not a fan, but that’s obviously not good research. That’s just my personal experience.

What do you know about the flu vaccine?

Dr. Seneff: I actually don’t know much about what’s happening in 2020, but I do know that it’s been performing very poorly in recent years. It’s interesting that flu seems to be becoming more and more dangerous over time as we’re encouraging people to get the flu vaccine. So many people are getting it every year these days. And we’re still getting lots of flu. It’s like the thing is not working. I don’t think it’s working very well at all.

I think that if you get the flu vaccine year after year, you’re going to become less resistant to the flu in terms of your natural innate ability to clear the flu. This is the whole thing about the innate immune system versus the adaptive system. I believe the flu vaccine is actually injuring your innate immune system and making you more susceptible to the flu. And in a sense, more in need of the of the vaccine’s antibodies to protect yourself.

There was a study done in Hong Kong in a placebo-controlled study. Half the kids were vaccinated for the flu and the other half were not. They monitored them over the next year and they found, I think it was a fourfold increased risk to its initial virus among those who had been vaccinated. They were much more susceptible to another virus that has symptoms very much like the flu, but it’s not the flu virus.

The flu, of course, has many, many different strains and every year they try to guess which strains to put into the vaccine. And, I think, failing more and more, because so many people are being vaccinated that the one that was in the vaccine is going to disappear. And that’s going to allow the other ones to grow. Just like what’s happening with HPV. The other strains get an opportunity to flourish because the dominant strain is getting wiped out by the vaccine.

I personally have never had a flu vaccine and I intend never to get one.

Robyn:  Well — I just don’t even bring this up really — that year that I got the flu vaccine, that winter, not long after is the first time I actually got the actual influenza. The first and only time in my life that I ever had it. And I don’t bring that up because I think people think that I believe the vaccine caused the flu, and I don’t necessarily believe that, but I think you just explained the mechanism by which that might happen. But I didn’t just get the flu, I got a whole bunch of things. I was sick like 10 times that whole winter. And I think your explanation really helps me understand maybe why that happened.

Dr. Seneff: For me personally, I don’t remember the last time I’ve had the flu. It’s been decades.

Robyn: I think the immune system is powerful and it probably needs more nurturing than machine guns firing at it.

Dr. Seneff: Exactly. That’s a good way to say it. I totally agree with that.

Eat healthy food, stay away from glyphosate, get out in the sun and you don’t need vaccines and your children don’t either. They can stay healthy as well. If you have a strong immune system, you can handle these diseases and getting the measles would not be a problem at all because it would be a very mild case, and then you would have immunity for life.

Robyn: Well, that was a really good one or two sentence summary of our whole conversation here today, which has been totally fascinating.

I know your time is very valuable and you’ve given me so much great information. I think my readers will really love listening to it. You are an incredible hero, speaking up for safety of vaccines, more testing of vaccines.

Tell us what you’ve got coming up that people should be following and paying attention to.

Dr. Seneff: I’m working on a book right now on glyphosate and I do have one chapter in that book that is devoted to vaccines. I hope that you will look for that book to come out sometime next year, and I’m hoping it’ll make a difference in helping to get the message out.

Robyn:  Wonderful. Thank you so much for being with us today.

Dr. Seneff: Thank you so much for having me.

Related article: Before You Give Your Child Antibiotics, Antacids, or ADD Meds: What a Holistic Pediatrician Wants You To Know


  1. Mold, Matthew, et al. “Aluminium in Brain Tissue in Autism.” Journal of Trace Elements in Medicine and Biology : Organ of the Society for Minerals and Trace Elements (GMS), U.S. National Library of Medicine, Mar. 2018,


One thought on “Ep. 153: Vaccines! Are They Effective? Are they Safe? With Stephanie Seneff, PhD”

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  1. Lori says:

    Thank you for sharing! I Enjoyed it and found it very informative

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