Ep.09: Synchronicity Interview with Carol Lynn Pearson

Robyn:  Hi, Robyn Openshaw here and welcome back. Today I am delighted to introduce to you one of my earliest heroes, and she is a very prolific author. She’s been writing for 40 or 50 years, the author Carol Lynn Pearson. She’s been a professional writer, speaker and theater performer for many years. She’s written countless poems. They’ve been reprinted in the Ann Landers column, Chicken Soup for the Soul, college literary textbooks, if you love poetry, they appear in a compilation called “Beginnings and Beyond.” Her book that just changed my life, really, many, many years ago as I was a teenager or young adult is called “Goodbye, I love you,” and Carol Lynn Pearson is one of the LDS or Mormon culture’s most well known authors, and in this story back before anyone was talking about it, I want to say in the 80’s, Carol Lynn tells the story of her marriage to a homosexual man and their divorce, their ongoing friendship and love for each other and her caring for him as he died of AIDS.

She ended up a guest on the Oprah Winfrey show and Good Morning, America and People Magazine because of this amazing book that she wrote. She’s written plays and motion pictures including the film Cipher In the Snow. What we’re talking about today is Carol Lynn Pearson’s recent book, Embracing Coincidence, and in it, she tells 44 of her own personal stories of synchronicity. Carol Lynn Pearson has a master’s degree in theater, she’s the mother of four grown children and she lives in Walnut Creek, California.

Okay everyone, I’m so excited to actually introduce you to Carol Lynn Pearson. I’ve already told you the enormous impact that she’s made on my life and we have the most exciting topic today. Carol Lynn’s book, “embracing coincidence,” talks about how you change your life through meaningful coincidence, and I think that energetically speaking, this is one of the most exciting things we can learn to observe and embrace, so, Carol Lynn, welcome to the show.

Carol:  Thank you so much, Robyn. Great to be with you. I love hearing from you what I’ve already heard.

Robyn:  Well, I want to talk about whether you believe in synchronicity and what you feel like it is and how to get more of it flowing in your life, because we’re going to get into some of the 44 … Maybe you’ll tell just a couple of your 44 synchronous experiences that you wrote about in your book and you’ve wrote about in your book, and you’ve written many, many books, and synchronicity is, and I’m going to tell a little bit later in our interview about the synchronicities that happened between you and I, which are really fun.

Carol:  Yes.

Robyn:  Tell me about whether you believe in synchronicity, what it is and if someone finds this really compelling, how do you think you get more of it?

Carol:  Sure. Oh, Robyn, I truly do believe that [inaudible 00:03:31] all synchronicity is an actual phenomenon. The word comes from psychologist, psychiatrist Carl Jung, and he described it as an acausal connection of two or more things coming together in a way that has no possibility of one causing the other, but there they are, and also it’s referred to as meaningful coincidence, so we bump into one thing or another all the time, but if what we bring together bumps into each other and gives us some sense of, “Ooh, there’s some meaning behind what’s happening,” then we need to be on the alert that this would be what we can call a synchronicity, and it is part of the mystery of life, but I know that they do happen, and it’s been several decades now.

I’ve kept a diary now for about 60 years, and I found myself writing into this diary certain events, and I would say, “Wow, that’s really interesting and that has a meaning for me,” and then I found the word from Jung, “synchronicity,” and so now I have in my diary and I write them down all the time. I have well over a thousand. Very small ones or some really large ones. The ones that you know in the book, Embracing Coincidence, are from my early days interacting with this phenomenon, but how to bring more into your life? I think make yourself a commitment that you will notice these coincidences that come into your life and then write them down and then kind of examine them for what meaning might be held there and then, tomorrow morning, establish a suggestion in your subconscious that you will, that day, observe at least one or more synchronicities, so that would be my suggestion to somebody who’s just fascinated by this, but doesn’t quite know what it is or how to go about it.

Robyn:  I love even the very word “synchronicity.” It sounds electric and it reminds me of energy exchange, which is what this show is all about. We’re talking about energies and raising your frequency or grounding your frequency so that you’re living a more centered life, you’re more peaceful, you’re more healthy, you’re more happy, and I love the idea of becoming more away of these, as you called them, “meaningful coincidences,” so I haven’t told you this story but I told you that I had one that for some reason comes to mind even though it was a really long time ago. Can I share this thing that happened?

Carol:  Sure.

Robyn:  I just want to know what you think of it and if you think this qualifies as synchronicity, because I think that I would love for our readers and we’re just having a ball with this brand new podcast and I really think that it would be of great value for people just even spend a little time thinking about this and noticing because it seems like a great way to get more flow going, is when you notice things that may have really rich context for you, but these things tend to fly past us and at most we go, “Huh, I wonder what that was about.” Here’s my quick story. When I was in my very early 20’s, I got married very young. I was an LDS BYU student and my husband was just home from his Mormon mission.

We were both college students. We lived in this tiny little apartment, and as you know, in the LDS faith, you are assigned to two families and you’re called their home teacher, and my husband was supposed to go home teach this family and they had a few little children, and I did not know this family. I had never met them, and my husband was calling them to arrange his monthly visit and I wasn’t hearing what was happening on the other end of the line, but as he was talking to them on the phone, I was standing at my stove in my little college apartment and I was making a pot of chili and I didn’t hear what the interaction was but I turned to my husband and just blurted out of my mouth, I didn’t have the thought, it actually came out of my mouth before I had the thought, and I said, “Ask them if we can bring them a pot of chili?”

As I said that to him, he looked at me kind of funny and he said, “Uh, can I bring you a pot of chili?” Then again, this came out of my mouth as I was having a thought. It’s not like I had the thought and assessed it and then said it, and I said, “Tell them also that we’ll pick up all of their dirty laundry,” and he hung up the phone and he was like, “Okay, so what was that all about?” I said, “I really don’t know,” and so I packaged up the pot of chili I just finished making and we drove over to their home. I’d never been there. I didn’t go up to the door. He went up to the door and gave them a pot of chili and then he began bringing buckets and boxes and baskets full of laundry. We filled up the entire back of our hatchback car with their dirty laundry and we went to the laundromat near our house and we spent several hours doing a bunch of loads of laundry and it was this tiny little family. Then we took it back. We folded it and we took it back and I thought, “Well, that was a strange thing that came out of my mouth but whatever. Hopefully that served them.”

We went to church the next Sunday and this man got up and he said, “My family and I were sick and we were kneeling on the floor and we were crying because we’d never been so sick and we had no food and we don’t really have any friends around here. We don’t have any family around here, and we were crying and we were playing, ‘Please, God, help us, we’ve been sick for so many days,’ and then your husband called and he said, ‘We’re bringing you a pot of chili and getting your laundry,'” and he said, “What you didn’t know is we didn’t have a single item of clean clothes.” I have always been just blown away by this experience, and I’m not even sure I ever talked to them about that. I don’t even know if I ever did know these people, but the man stood up at the pulpit and told this story and how meaningful it was for him. Does that count as synchronicity or …

Carol:  Of course it does, Robyn, and that’s a beautiful example, but there are probably even richer levels to that than just the word “synchronicity.” I’m sure that you had some experience of what we call ESP. You were reading on their wavelength of a need that they had and sure, it turned out to be a coincidence but also I think that there was a very definite connection that you had made with them that let you know their needs. All of this nonphysical, miraculous, mysterious stuff, I don’t know that you can always separate what’s the synchronicity, what comes from extrasensory perception or any of the other wonderful words that we use, but that’s a beautiful experience. Thank you.

Robyn:  Yeah, I wanted to bounce that off of you because I hadn’t thought of it in many years and I’ve really been enjoying … I’ve just been getting excited about our interview and excited about talking about this. I’d love for you to share a couple of synchronicities you’ve encountered or you’ve experienced lately or one or two of the stories from your book, and especially it kind of gives me chills, if you’d tell the smiley face story.

Oh sure, when I wrote that book, I, of course, was able to go through my diary and select various stories. My youngest daughter passed away and it was a very difficult thing for the family, of course, and as we were typing out the funeral program and it was actually a dear friend of the family who was doing that, he was sitting down at the computer in the house, typing out what was going to be happening, and all of a sudden, he said, “Whoa, look at this,” and I came over to where he was and he had written out the first line of what was going to be happening and directly instead of putting a period, there appeared a smiley face, and I had never seen that happen on this computer or on any computer, and I know that there’s an explanation for this.

There’s always an explanation about synchronicities, but somehow this had happened in this wonderful, accidental kind of way that appeared to me and to us as a little message from my daughter who used to enjoy … She really, really always enjoyed writing little smiley faces, so that was that one, and it was just a little glimpse into the unknown that hopefully was a message of cheer from her at that time.

Robyn:  I’ve been preparing to do another podcast episode on the six human needs that Tony Robbins talks about and his first human need is certainty and the second human need that all of us have is uncertainty, and so we need both and we want both and I think of this when seeming coincidences, like you’re saying goodbye to your daughter and having this, I would imagine you missed her deeply and wanted some kind of connection and she probably did too and the ways that those who’ve left us on this planet reach out to us, it doesn’t just give me chills. It gives me hope that we have more power than we think, and just feels like there are symbols in little occurrences in my life and it makes me feel both more certain that there’s something more and something important that I should reach for but it also gives me a thrill of uncertainty that we want as well, like there’s something here I don’t understand and it reminds me to stay open. Do you feel that way about it?

Carol:  Oh yes. It is sort of a window into the vast mystery that will always, at this time in our eternal lives, remain a mystery, but these magical moments just give us a glimpse into the fact that there is meaning in this mystery, and that in some wonderful way, all of us and everything is connected, and connection is the word, of course, that makes a synchronicity. Two things connect in a way that by all logic they should not, but here they are, bumping into each other.

Robyn:  I think “by all logic” is an important phrase because, you know, what logic used to be is a different thing than it is, and now we know that quantum particles can exist in multiple points in space.

Carol:  Isn’t that amazing?

Robyn:  Yeah, so we have to … If that is now a fact that literally there are subatomic particles with no mass out there looking for electrons across the universe, what does that mean for you and me and how small we’re playing if we’re not opening our hearts and our minds to …

Carol:  Absolutely. Robyn, you asked me to think of a recent synchronicity that was meaningful to me, and here’s one from just about two weeks ago. I have, as we all have, the little tiny synchronicities all the time, like I’m writing a note to somebody and I write the word “hope” and exactly at that moment I hear on the podcast that is being played, the word “hope,” so those small, but I think really lovely synchronicities are really quite common, and I think for all of us, if we would pay attention, but the ones that I consider in my life to be the really big ones that is like some eternal something or someone kind of slapping me upside the head saying, “Pay attention to this, will you?” These are the kinds that drive me crazy because they point out my personal flaws, and that’s why I value them so much, and especially I love the ones where matter of something in front of me is involved in this story. I’m going to tell you about what happened to me about two weeks ago.

Robyn:  Yeah, that’s interesting.

Carol:  I have to confess here that I am not a perfected human being, that I do not always vibrate at the highest level and in fact in the story I’m about to tell you, I was really, really angry, and a particular person in my life had just not done what he said he would do and this is kind of an ongoing pattern, and so I sort of lost it and I had kind of a meltdown and I spent the evening alone, by myself, being just very frustrated and very angry. I was cleaning up the kitchen. I cleaned off the counters. I put stuff in the disposal. I went over and I turned on … Well, before that, I turned the water on high so this disposal would work properly and then I went and turned on the switch and it was grinding, grinding, grinding. I turned off the switch, finished what I was doing, went upstairs.

Okay, in the morning I come down and not only is the tap water still running in the sink but it is hot water that has been on all night, running in my sink and I instantly go into what I call my synchronicity mode, and I think, “Oh my gosh, this is one of those big ones that I call a message from the universe directly to me,” that this was my doing. I had done this for myself, to myself, to teach myself, “Don’t leave the hot water running,” meaning, “Don’t leave your personal anger running.” I knew exactly what I was saying to myself and as I had cleaned up the kitchen that night, I was so preoccupied and not paying attention to what I was doing, and that was the very thing that I was angry about from this person in my life who will remain unnamed because he had a habit of unconsciously leaving things and not paying attention to what he should be paying attention to.

That is the exact kind of classical synchronicity that I experience frequently that is really just slapping me and saying, “Look at what you are doing. See it, here in the physical universe, in front of you. This is a dramatization of what you need to look at.”

Robyn:  Not only is that fascinating but I actually feel like it is the … It’s not slapping you. It’s like a little, divine tap on the shoulder. It’s sweetness. It’s like, “Oh, I can accept it this way,” whereas if someone actually did walk up and slap me in the face and say, “Hey Carol Lynn, you’re screwing everything up,” you might not hear it.

Carol:   You’re saying that because these always are from kindness. They’re always from gentleness, and when I said that I felt like I … I really felt that I had taken myself and shaken my own shoulders and said, “Wake up.” Every one … This is an interesting point. Of all the synchronicities that I write down all the time in my diary, they are all of a positive nature. There’s nothing frightening that ever comes, and that’s extraordinarily interesting to me, so this thing that we’re working with, life, God, the universe, whatever it is that’s providing these, it is done … Even though we are not at a high vibration, this always comes from a high vibration, and that to me is really encouraging.

Robyn:  So it feels like a gift.

Carol:  Oh yeah. Yeah. It underlines something positive. Even if it’s a lesson that is, “Don’t do this particular thing,” it is asking for that because everything will work out so much better if you do it a different way.

Robyn:  I love that. You know, I was first exposed to you, I believe, even before college, and then I was an English major. I had a lot of exposure to a man I absolutely love. He’s long gone, but I have a feeling that you know him too even though I haven’t asked you this, and that is Eugene England.

Carol:  Yes, yes. Wonderful man.

Robyn:  An amazing man and really helped shape me at a formative time of my life and I used to tell him, “I feel like God is going to feel like I ask too many questions.” I was too pushy. I had too much that I doubted, and he looked at me just totally mildly and he said, “Really? Because I always worry that when I get on the other side, that God will be disappointed in me that I didn’t ask more, that I didn’t question more, that I didn’t think, that I wasn’t more thoughtful,” and it was a great counterpoint to me to think of something … Different way.

I want you to know that you were absolutely pivotal in my life at a very young age because I was raised to put your head down, be quiet, acquiesce to the patriarchy, your brain is for grocery shopping and all things home and family, which have been wonderful things in my life, but I was never told I should be anything more, and when I read your work, I didn’t just think, “This is a woman who is speaking up long before women were speaking up,” but you talked about things that moved me deeply and I had never met a gay person when you wrote the story of … You ended up divorced from your husband who is the father of your four children and then you were with him as he passed away of AIDS and your book may actually be the first book that made me set it down and sit there and just cry.

Carol:  Oh.

Robyn:  You really impacted me and are probably, without actually knowing me, a major part of what put me on this path of wanting to help people increase their own vibration, so you’ve been through hard things. You’ve lost a child. You’ve lost a husband through very, very … There’s no manual for that, so I found that turning the hard things that have happened in my life into useful things. How have you done that? Because you’ve been through more of your share and you’re still so amazingly sharp and productive and still contributing. What do you do with those hard things that other people could leverage? What do they mean for you? What do they mean for us?

Carol:  Sure. Well, it is clear to me, and I think you said something about this on a prior podcast, that random stuff does happen. However, we can take anything, random though it might be, and turn it into something meaningful, and yet, many, many of our things, I think, come to us not as random things, and yes, I married a man who was gay and from the information that we had back then, he and I both did the very best that we could, and then as we learned that we he’d hoped for had not happened and we divorced, as you said, and then, yes, he was … He did die of AIDS in my home where at the end I was taking care of him. In one way you can merely say what a horrible, awful, dreadful thing to experience, and that is true. However, my marriage to this wonderful, dear, queer man was the reason that I became a writer in the first place. He insisted that we publish this little book of poems that by fluke or by fate put me on the map. This little book called “Beginnings,” who … What normal man would have done that? I mean, what average man would have done that?

Then, I think too, it’s very much of a synchronicity that his circumstance of being a gay man and my if’s that I brought to our marriage of being a writer, and he and I never discussed the idea that I would write a book about our story, about our life together, but soon after his death, I thought, “Wow, I could do something important for my community and for a lot of people,” so I did write that book and it has been profoundly helpful for lots and lots of people, and so in terms of synchronicity, I think we could, if we had time, move the lens back and back and back and back, from looking at these little daily synchronicities that make us go, “Ooh, isn’t that interesting?” But if we move back enough to see the whole of our life, that we could see it written as if it were some kind of an intelligent novel where this theme keeps popping up here and here and here and here.

You would find women who would say, “I keep marrying or I keep going with the same, same kind of man.” Well, maybe you will, that will be a theme of yours until you decide to do it differently, but what has happened for me, in terms of being able to refocus the difficulties of my life in a way that I utilize them for the benefit of myself and for others, it has relieved me of a tremendous amount of resentment because I am more open to the idea that we, hopefully as eternal souls, do have some kind of interaction with our spiritual committee or God or whatever you want to say, in creating a circumstance here that is really important for the next steps in our journey. Maybe we’ve already gotten what we might call a certain amount of spiritual merit badges, and here’s one thing now that I really need to focus on, and as I look at my life right now, I think, “Okay, I must have chosen a theme of validating femaleness in a world that does not validate femaleness.”

That theme clearly was apparent in my life, but from what I’ve just said, imagine this. Here I sit, writing that book, “Goodbye, I love you,” and I find myself writing, so now here, certainly my church, seemingly God, and now my husband, all prefer men. That’s a large, large synchronicity, and I think we could, each of us, find certain confluences of ideas and challenges if we were to examine our whole life as a story, and consequently give up maybe some of the habits we have that keep putting us in the same bind, but also develop some reverence for the way these things come together, because honestly, I have nothing but gratitude for all the things that have brought, come into my life, to put me up against patriarchal thinking, gender thinking, because this is where I have been able to do my very best work.

I’m happy and alive when I’m doing my very, very best work, and so my commitment is to help us move from patriarchy into partnership and everything … The big things that I see that have happened in my life, have all moved me in that direction, and I find that very exciting and really comforting.

Robyn:  Well, I’m just tingling down my spine hearing your words of validating femaleness while you have this trio of experiences that would make anyone else probably go the other direction or doubt their path. You’re absolutely a pioneer and an inspiration, but tell me … I may have made this up but I don’t think so. Didn’t your daughter marry a gay man as well? Isn’t there a fourth part to that that you probably got to help elevate and assist with?

Carol:  That is true, and that’s another difficult part of this whole story. What are the odds?

Robyn:  Yeah, what are the odds?

Carol:  A daughter who would marry a gay man, so yes, these themes play out, again and again and again, in strange kinds of ways, until all of us learn more about why we got into these themes in the first place.

Robyn:  I love that none of the tragedies that happen in our lives, the ones that we wring our hands over and we tell people 20 thousand times that none of them are wasted if we choose for them to not be so, and I love what you’ve said about choosing synchronicities to build themes in our lives and to weave a novel of our life. What a beautiful idea.

Carol:  Yeah, and in that way, we can sort of make … Well, we can definitely make choices along the way. If we become clear enough about the themes that we have developed in our life and is this a theme we want to continue or am I going to bring in a new one? Maybe the old one will invite a new theme. If we are conscious, if we are sufficiently aware of what’s going on inside, especially inside in our own landscape, and then as that intersects with the landscape around us in the physical world, and keeping our eyes open, our inner eyes and our outer eyes … Yeah, this interests me. I’ve never put it quite this way, but when our outer eyes see something that resonate with our inner eyes, and that kind of suddenly focuses into one thing, as I think I expressed with my deal here about leaving on the hot water, which was really my anger, my inner sight blended with my outer sight and that really brought me up short but gave me some encouragement for saying, “Yes, this is what you do. Give that up. Turn off the anger, turn off the hot water.”

I love those kinds of messages and the wonderful thing is, these don’t come from somebody standing at a podium. These all come from inside of ourselves. There’s a wonderful quote that I have at the introduction of this book we’re speaking of, Embracing Coincidence, that synchronicity is religion without dogma. It’s each one of us acting as our own priest or priestess, bringing into our lives the knowledge that we need.

Robyn:  This has been so interesting to have you sort of define synchronicity for me because it’s kind of this buzz word and I feel like I understand it better in just 30 minutes with you and while you didn’t write the dictionary definition, you certainly have helped really elucidate what value it has for us and the funny thing is, as you were telling the hot water in the sink story, I got it immediately before you translated what this meant for you in your life and what it was you were supposed to learn from it. I got it immediately and then I almost laughed out loud because I thought, “I guarantee you, if that had happened to me, I wouldn’t have gotten it ever.”

Carol:  Yeah, well, see, the thing is, once you take these seriously and especially if you write them down, and honestly, I have got, I don’t know how many … Well over a thousand of these small and large little stories of synchronicity written in my diary, and that’s the way that you train yourself to, as I said a moment ago, slip into the synchronicity space. Something happens that you would just throw that away. “Oh stupid me, I left the water running,” but I have, through all of these years, trained myself to recognize how the outer meets the inner part of my life and I can quickly slip into what I do call my synchronicity space, and so I recognize that this is a message from the universe coming through, and really, it’s from me.

It’s from me to me, with love. From my connection with God to the smaller me with love, but somehow it’s the magical, wonderful part of the universe that we are and that we own, connecting with this temporary little person that we are stumbling along, and we suddenly see a little magical moment that says … I think many of our synchronicities are just a little pat on the back that says, “Right time, right place,” because a lot of lovely little things I can’t make any big meaning out of, but to know that two things have come together, oh, I’m in the right time at the right place. I feel good.

Robyn:  I really like what you’re saying about slipping into a synchronicity space, and I’m going to put that in our consider and create sheet for those who follow the podcast who want to download the actionable items that they can take from this. Slipping into a synchronicity space, when you said that you’ve written down over a thousand little magical synchronicities in your life, my thought was, “I’m missing them. I’m missing lots of them,” because here I am. I’m also 50 and I’m fairly certain I have not been aware of, or conscious enough, to pick up on a thousand synchronicities, so I want to be more aware of them. I want to challenge our audience to be more aware of them, and squeeze the juice out of them. What are they there to teach you?

Carol:  I so encourage that, and write them down. See if they have any particular meaning and don’t force some meaning on them. Don’t say, “I saw three things about people moving to India today. I think I better move to India.” These things primarily, primarily, are to be looked at symbolically, and if you were to have that little thing I just made up there, things about India, maybe your inner self is suggesting, “You know, you’ve been talking about studying meditation. You’ve been talking about maybe yoga. Maybe take that part of it seriously right now.” Look for the larger symbolism in everything.

Robyn:  The synchronicities are all over the place. You and I were so meant to be friends and you and I could just talk about synchronicities all day long, I feel like, and we said that. Before we got started, we said, “We’re going to have a hard time ending this podcast on time,” because I could just listen to your stories all day, but tell me one more. Tell my audience one more, because these stories kind of get our juices flowing to recognize them, right? In our own lives.

Carol:  Sometimes I have a synchronicity that just makes me laugh and I just thought of one. I was leaving the Kaiser health organization. From getting my flu shot I was walking back to my car and I have this weird habit. I have three different pairs of glasses but I had hanging on my little chain here on my neck, I had my reading glasses and I had my driving glasses, so I’m walking back to my car and coming in, I had been listening to the music of Godspell. Do you remember that great old 1970’s tribute to Jesus and his apostles and so here I am going back to my car and as I’m walking along, I pick up one of the pairs of glasses to get ready to drive in my car, put them on at the very exact moment that I find myself singing the song that was the last one that I heard in my car.

Here I am hopping along, singing, from the song, “Day by Day,” “To see thee more clearly,” at the second that I realized I had put on the wrong glasses and I was seeing nothing clearly. The people in front of me, everything was not clear as I was singing away my heart out in this lovely little song, “To see thee more clearly,” and I just burst into laughter, because, and of course, that was just a gentle moment to remind me to try constantly, even harder, to see things clearly, to not see things through the wrong lens, and it is so easy to slip into that synchronicity space when I did that and it just made me happy. I just laughed.

Robyn:  Now you’ve made us all happy and so I have really enjoyed thinking about synchronicities being messages from the universe with you, today, Carol Lynn, and how synchronicities can be a message from me to me, with love. We’re going to capture some of your very best bits. Tell my audience how they can find more of you.

Carol:  Sure, I’m on Facebook. I had to leave my private page but you can follow me on my public page, Carol Lynn Pearson, Author. Just go there and like that page and/or go to Amazon and just start browsing around. I also have a personal website, just my name, CarolLynnPearson.com, and there’s a lot of interesting stuff there, a lot of things that I offer that you might be interested in.

Robyn:  I love everything you’ve shared with us because what you’re sharing has everything to do with us living our high vibration life, so thank you so much, Carol Lynn Pearson.

Carol:  Robyn, thank you so much for inviting me. I’m thrilled to be on this journey with you and with all the people who are listening here. We’re doing wonderful stuff, and we are all connected. We are all one in some fabulous, mysterious way.

Robyn:  I love it. Thank you, everyone. Please don’t forget to subscribe, rate and review so that we get good feedback, and don’t forget to go check out Carol Lynn Pearson on Facebook. I hope you’ll go to the show notes for the consider and create handout so that you can really use what you just heard in your own life. See you next time.