vaccine convos: in doctor’s offices, at tennis
Today I hired a young newlywed named Trina, who trained in raw foods at Tree of Life Institute and whose mother is a friend of mine and neighbor who has been raw for over 10 years. (Thanks to everyone who applied–many of you are PERFECT, and I am keeping your contact info in case I need more help!)
Trina worked in a doctor’s office and was having to help inject babies with bacteria and chemicals all day, every day.
This was causing her no end of anguish and conflict. The last straw came when the office demanded she get a flu shot as a condition of employment and she chose to quit. “It was time to stand up for what I believe,” she said.
She wants to have a baby. She says that last year, the CDC said pregnant women shouldn’t get the flu shot, and this year they say everyone should get it. So the doctors’ office she works for fell in line behind the CDC in its about-face. This kind of scattershot, whiplash policy should be just part of what gives us pause and makes us examine U.S. vaccine policy and its relevance in our lives.
Today I was playing tennis with my team and a couple of coaches. I walked up as a coach, Peter, and a player named Gina were apparently discussing whether or not Peter should get a flu shot. This conversation ensued:
Gina: Robyn, do you get the flu shot?
Me: Nope. I was required to, when I worked at the State Hospital, and I’ve never been sicker in my life. That was in my 20′s, and I think I got sick 13 times that winter.
Peter: Everyone tells me that. I don’t think I’m going to get it.
Me: Well, it has a variety of toxic ingredients in it, which very possibly suppress your immune system right when you need it. And they put half a dozen or so strains of killed bacteria in there, but there are hundreds of strains that might take hold in the population, in any given year. Seems like a crapshoot to me.
Camille (another player nearby): Just please tell me that you get your KIDS immunized.
Gina and Me: (silence, we start practicing our serves again, and Camille starts to walk away)
Me: Why, you don’t like people who don’t immunize?
Camille (clearly trying to formulate a statement that isn’t too insulting): Well, they’re CRAZY.
Gina (after Camille walks away, in a whisper, to me): Do you immunize your kids?
Me (in a whisper): Nope.
Gina (still whispering): Me neither.
That was funny, but it’s too bad that this issue is so divisive that those of us who’ve studied this issue copiously have to feel like we’re at the Salem Witch Trials if we opt out of What Everyone Else Is Doing. To me, vaccines are the Emperor’s New Clothes. We’ve fallen for this complete insanity mostly because we have collectively accepted it for so long that most people don’t question it.
It seems insane to inject bacteria and chemicals, in more and more shots each year, into little babies, but hey, everyone’s doing it, so it must be okay.
It’s too bad that Trina finds herself trained in a field that she’s now edged out of, if she doesn’t want to inject her bloodstream (and her future baby’s, during gestation) with toxins every year. She says that anywhere she works in the medical field, the flu shot is now required.
Turns out one or two of the doctors at the practice she worked at don’t immunize their kids either. They, too, have to keep it on the downlow.
I do NOT immunize my kids and proud of it! What did people do before shots?!! Hello people you think that God would make something so wonderful that needs to be pumped with crap the second it is born – I dont think so!! Its all about money!!!
so glad you mentioned this today… i took my 2 year old daughter into the doctor for the first time since she was 2 weeks old… she has a staph infection and has had it for a while.. i had no idea. of course, the doctor made me feel like a moron for not bringing her in sooner. i don’t do doctors. i don’t like the wait, the money i have to pay to tell me they have a cold, etc. i use essential oils, emergen-c, green smoothies, and other natural remedies when we are sick (which isn’t all that often). and i rarely have to take my kids to the doctor. and i really don’t want to take them to begin with to battle the doctor over immunizations. (my first child was immunized until he was about 2, my second, i started immunizing around 18 months and he got one round and i stopped- he was SO SICK!, my third, i learned, and she has had nothing). of course while there, he questioned me why i didn’t want to immunize her. i hate that i have to “back up my decision.” it’s soooo annoying. but i’m wondering what are some good sources to study so that i can “back myself up.” he told me the next time he saw me, he was going to try and “convince me.” i think i may just change pediatricians… but really… is anyone any different? will it be worth my time? i have already rejected the hep b vaccine for my soon to be brand new baby. so ridiculous. a one day old baby, they want to inject with a bunch of crap. let alone my 2 year old daughter that weighs 20 lbs. no way. i’m not having it. so give me some good reliable resources so i can fight this doctor off. i have to take my daughter back on monday… her staph is not cleared up from her first dose of antibiotics. and i need to look up some oils to see if i can find something that will kill it indefinitely. i hate antibiotics! sorry this is so long! email me if you can at tiffanydansie@gmail.com or just leave a comment or do a post on good resources to study! it would be much appreciated…. i’m sure by many! thanks!!!
I was at my doctor’s yesterday, and she confessed that she doesn’t normally get the flu shot, but did get it last year “to protect her patients.” I was confused by that, but at least I was glad that she supported my decision to not get the flu shot.
It’s not required to get a flu shot in my office.
My daughters have their 2 and 4 year old check-ups in December and January and I have been getting nervous about them because I think I’ve decided to not get them immunized. I haven’t read extensively like some people have about it, but it just feels right. What I’m mostly nervous about is if they do get sick, that I have the knowledge to do what’s right for them. Any words of wisdom?
My pediatrician said that she would laugh at me when I bring my sick kids in this winter because I refused the flu shot for them.
Tiffany, just emailed you with some info. Hope it helps! Take care.
Tiffany, read Neustadter and O’Brien on immunizations. You can read a review under the “Books” tab on the GreenSmoothieGirl homepage.
thanks diamond and robyn. diamond, could you re-send it? i’m sorry! it went into my junk email since it didn’t recognize the address and i deleted it without knowing what it was! sorry for the inconvenience!
tiffany
I dont want to get my children immunized,but how do you not! I mean my 3 children go to a private school and they check to see if the children have had their shots and want proof. I thought the public school were the same.
I guess I have thought this was a requirement to all parents. Im not very smart in this area I wish I was. Can someone tell me if I HAVE a choice in this matter or is this something I would just have to kick under the rug and just not take my children to get their shots?
Christy, in Utah where I live, you must sign a waiver at the county health department, and take it to your child’s school. I believe you have a right in all 50 states to opt out. I have always done that. If there were an epidemic of that illness, your child would have to stay home from school. (My oldest is 17 and we’ve never had an issue or outbreak at any of their schools.)
Just last night my friend called me to come over with some medicine for her 12 month old to try to bring his fever down. She didn’t have anything on hand and was getting really worried about her little guy. He had received a flu shot two days before and was running a fever of 103.7 degrees for the past 24 hours. He was lifeless and very sick acting. It was actually really scary! She didn’t want to do the flu shot but the doctor talked her into it and was quite pushy about it. It was just a perfect example of why not to get the flu shot! The fact he was so sick tells me it is wrong! She was so mad she let him talk her into it. It sure is easy to doubt yourself when someone with so much “medical education” is telling you different and the only knowledge you basically have is your gut instinct. I guess that is why it is so important to make sure you are educated along with your instincts. Thanks Robin for mentioning where to get better educated about immunizations. I needed that! Thanks!
Never had the flu shot and have never been really sick without it. My husband gets them every year and always ends up sick
I’m an RN in NC. Last year the hospital I work for tried to make it mandatory that all RN’s in direct patient care get immunized for both the flu and H1N1. “To protect the patients.” They said that if you didn’t get immunized that you HAD to wear a facemask anytime you were within 6 feet (I think that was it) of a patient. I wore a facemask 12 hrs every single day! And there were a lot of other RN’s wearing facemasks all day. The only time in the last 30 years that I got the flu shot was in 2008 when my husband had leukemia and he was immuno-compromised. Luckily I didn’t get sick from that shot. I do remember reading last year when there was such a scare about H1N1 that there were hospitals in the Northeast firing RNs who refused to get vaccinated.
Yes, that’s what Trina was told: that she must be immunized “to protect the patients.”
That’s quite a statement–nurses wearing masks because they refuse to get the shot themselves! Wow. Thanks for the story, Kim.
I was reading this and just wanted to say that last year when the “amazing new flu shot” (sarcasm)LOL came out, and was COMPLETELY pushed at my kids school (and even offered to all parents of kids that attended there), my husband and I said ABSOLUTELY NOT and NEVER, and you would have thought that my kids had the plague by the way they were treated at school for not receiving one!! It was CRAZY and these poor kids of other parents have been taught that this is just something everyone SHOULD do!! Says who??? Thankfully we have been blessed to have pretty outspoken, spunky kids who have no problem being the odd man out, but seriously???? Having to defend your parents decision to not have a flu shot is INSANE!! I am not a expert by any means on the immunization topic, but have four beautiful kids and after the first 3, finally got brave enough to say NO MORE!! My gut ALWAYS said not to do it and I always felt so pressured as a young mom, but not anymore! There is so much helpful info out there to help you understand your rights as a parent for NOT immunizing your precious children!! Thank heavens for people like Robyn and those like her, who care more about being wise stewards over the tabernacles we have been given and educating others how to do the same! There is so much to be said about following your gut instincts and your heart and living in harmony with ourselves and the world around us!!
Stephanie, why on earth would your children be singled out for their parents’ choices? That is wildly inappropriate, especially in the age of HIPAA privacy law! I hope you will meet with your children’s teachers and the administrator of the school. You are within your rights to choose not to immunize, and there are quite a few others at your school undoubtedly choosing the same–here in Utah there’s a 22-26% non-immunized rate. I’m sure only some of those are conscientious objectors, but that’s still a significant number.
That should never happen. My goodness.
Thank you for saying that about Utah Robyn, as we are actually relocating to the Lehi area very soon! I am so excited to be somewhere that (at least a few others) share some of the same thoughts on health and well-being! If there is one thing that I have definitely learned over the last few months after finding your website, and reading your books, and making the desperately needed dietary changes in our lives, is that there are SO MANY “nutritionally misinformed” people, (and I was one of them!) It kills me that such a large percentage of people (who are very intelligent), are so “stuck” and “set” in the so-called “health trends” of the world!! YIKES!! So grateful for divine inspiration and people like you whose gifts of knowledge and passion help to change the lives of others!! Green smoothie cheers!!
Last month, I spent 2 days in continuing legal education regarding the health care reforms. I learned that the reforms are incentivizing doctors to go into Accountable Care Organizations, rather than practicing independently. Moreover, because of their economic power, hospitals will most likely end up owning many, if not most, of the ACO’s.
The end result will be extreme vertical integration of health care and great concentration of power bestowed upon the “traditional” element.
My first thought was that the day of the independent pediatrician is over. Those who will agree to continue to treat children whose parents do not believe in vaccination will be few and far between, if they exist at all.
Those whose inclination is to report parents –who refuse to vaccinate and give flu shots–to child welfare for medical “neglect” will increase.
All of you moms are great!
My husband and I still aren’t planning on having kids for a couple of years, but we are planners and we over prepare for everything. I’m already looking into vaccinations… i also feel like you all are the type of women that would know about natural child birth???? any thoughts…. does anyone know of a birth center in utah or a good OB that is open to alternative medicines??? Telling people that you want to have a natural child birth is scary, they automatically assume you can’t handle it, and if freaks me out. Most of the women I tell that I want to go to a Birth Center they go into all the horrible things that can happen if you don’t have your baby in a hospital. Anyways any information or books or websites that all of you wonderful women have if you could send my way that would be great. You can email me at heiditaylor16@gmail.com
We did not immunize our son. He is now 11 months old. He has only had a couple short term bugs and we have only used natural treatments for him. For example- garlic oil for earaches, thieves essential oil blend for cough and cold symptoms (rubbed on his feet), and just plain breastmilk when he was really tiny.
I’ve been studying vaccines since me second child was about a year old and we found out that he is allergic to so many things. We worried how he might react to more vaccines (especially the MMR). I’m now pregnant with #4 and we don’t vaccinate at all. I so wish I had done more research before we had our first child, but sadly we didn’t and just went along with it all.
Robyn, I love your comparison of the mass immunization that we have right now and the Emperor’s New Clothes. That’s exactly what it is. We as non-immunizes have to justify ourselves for everything (to friends, schools and doctors) and those who go along with the program (myself included back in the day) just mindlessly go along with it often times never giving it a second thought.
I’ve armed myself big time with info not just because I always have to justify our decision to medical “experts”, but because I’ve been able to share this knowledge with many other moms who have benefited from it. It’s scary to tell others that you don’t vaccinate, but it’s so worth it when you find out that you are making others think twice, even if they are nasty about it at first…it plants the seed and often they will start to research on their own. I’ve had several friends who were less than nice when I told them about our decision, but after I told them our reasons for not vaxing I found out later that they stopped, spread out, or held off on some vaccines. It’s a start. I really think we need to continue to be nicely vocal about it. Also, I’ve been surprised to have some friends tell me “we don’t vaccinate either”, but we’re too scared to tell anyone”.
Anyway, here are some of my favorite books/websites.
***What your Doctor May Not Tell You About Children’s Vaccines by Stephanie Cave MD (she’s a pediatrician and gives you the real deal as well as the monetary reasons that many of these vaccines are being pushed). This is the best book about vaccines!***
http://www.amazon.com/What-Doctor-About-Childrens-Vaccinations/dp/0446677078
***This site lists every state in the US and how you can get out of vaccinating your child. In many states you simply need to be philosophically opposed to it. In others it’s a bit more tricky as you have to claim a religious exemption, but simply using the above argument “that God wouldn’t make something so wonderful that needs to be pumped with crap the second it is born” would easily work***
http://www.nvic.org/Vaccine-Laws/state-vaccine-requirements.aspx
***Dr Sherri Tenpenny is a medical doctor and a very outspoken opponent of vaccination. Her website has great info especially on the flu shot.***
http://drtenpenny.com/default.aspx
Sorry this was such a long post, but this is all info I wish I’d have known much earlier.
Okay, here are some questions:
I stopped giving myself and my kids the flu shot 4 years ago. However, I’ve still been keeping “up-to-date” on their regular vaccines (I have five children under the age of 10, btw).
My youngest has one more vaccination at 18 months and then nothing until his Kindergarten ones. I know this question will sound trite or simple or whatever to most people, but… what do I do? Do I opt out of all the vaccinations? Don’t get the one at 18 months? Opt out of the Kindergarten ones?
My oldest four kids are completely up-to-date and they’ve never had any problems with them. My youngest does react to them a few days later (fever), but recovers rather quickly. I’m just not sure what to do. I know for some the answer is obvious: Stop immediately! But for some reason, this has been a very difficult decision for me. I’m just not sure what to do.
Side note: When swine flu came out, I refused to get my kids vaccinated. Four of us (out of the 7) caught the swine flu –we all got over it within a week. We were FINE. People freak out over things too much, imho.
Cheryl, I doubt anyone wants to tell you what to do with vaccinations–surely I don’t. All I want to suggest to you is that you study it out before making the decision to continue.
Kascia,
In regards to your friend’s situation with a child with a high fever, I would encourage you and her to check out the International Pediatric Chiropractic Association’s website, icpa4kids.org. They have some great articles educating parents about the reason for fevers and natural ways to treat a fever. I have found it incredibly helpful, as my daughter gets high (102-104) fevers just from teething. Other than from teething, she RARELY gets sick or has a fever, and she is not vaccinated. Below is a link to many articles regarding fevers on the ICPA website.
http://icpa4kids.org/index.php?option=com_finder&view=search&q=fever
Blessings!!
I’ve had close friends of mine change their tone of voice to a mean, insulting one and be ridiculously rude right to my face about how I’m harming their children and being irresponsible. I can’t believe that a friend would be able to be that condescending to another friend over their beliefs. And the question I always want to say but bite my tongue is… “How could my kids harm your kids if yours are vaccinated?!?”
Heidi Taylor~
I just want you to know that no matter what any person tells you- your body was designed to give birth and it is a natural intimate event in a woman’s life ( well it should be). Stop listening to the “horrible things that can happen if you do not have your baby in the hospital”. Also, please try to release teh fear. It is scary to talk to the main stream moms, when you feel so different, but I am here to tell you that you are a strong woman and you can do it! I do not live in Utah, so I cannot give you the names of birthing centers, but what I can share with you is that I gave birth to 4 beautiful HEALTHY children AT HOME, by myself with only my husband present. Now, I am not saying that you should do that, but what you should do is follow your desire, your heart your instinct….if you and your hubby are saying birth center and feel it is RIGHT FOR YOU- then do it. My advise is to be strong and not let the opinions or comments of others hinder you in anyway. I am a true believer that if you think of negatives, you more readily produce negatives. Birth is a wonderous, natural human process…..not a medical event. So stay strong in what you want, be sure of it and do only what your heart and intuition tell you- not the neigh sayers.
For me, hospitals and medical environments are not a comfortable place for me. And I knew as a mother bringing a child into this world, I needed to be in a safe, happy place that I could freely do what my body was intended to do.
I know many women are more comfortable in a hospital setting and I feel if that is the case, then that is where they should be.
I gave birth to all for of my children either squatting, or kneeling on all fours. My first was 9lbs 2 oz, the second was 9lbs 8oz, the 3rd was 8 lbs and my last one was 8lb 6oz. I had no tearing and obviously was not cut to allow the “big” babies to be delivered. Instead, what I was allowed to do was focus, move, breath and be where I was most comfortable….in my own home.
I do not believe in looking badly at someone for the choices they make ( ex. a hospital birth) instead, I believe in encouraging woman to do what is most comfortable for them. As I said before you are a strong woman, your body was designed to birth children, embrace that and follow that inner guide that we were all given.
You will have a happy beautiful birth story!
Thanks Robyn! I did give my son the first set of immunizations, birth and 2 months, however, after I left the doctors office with the list of scheduled immunizations I was freaked out. This list was long and seemed endless. Then I did some research on what was in the immunizations and it completely freaked me out. People aren’t questioning shots riddled with poisons like mercury, animal tissues and so many scary things. I decided not to complete the scheduled immunizations. I also decided not to tell anyone because of the fear of being viewed as a kook. My son is now going on 5 and I just admitted to my mom that I don’t vaccinate him. She was actually really proud of me and it felt good not to be judged. I have told other people and I get mixed reactions. I will admit that the people who immunize their kids are always angry about it and view me negatively. I don’t understand why this is. We are a culture of supposedly “free” people but the moment any of us jump out of line and think for ourselves the herd gets angry. I don’t get as mad at people who choose to poison their kid. I choose not to and I feel really good that there are other people out there who not only chose to do the same but also feel the frustration at those of us who have made this choice.
To Heidi…
I will say this, though Tawnya makes a wonderful argument, and I think natural birth is a beautiful and wonderful thing and applaud any woman who makes that beautiful, do consider this. Sometimes things do go wrong. It is a fact of life. Children and mothers have died at childbirth since the beginning of time. When I gave birth to my full tern son, his lungs were slightly underdeveloped. Similar to that of a premie. Had he not been born in a hospital it is likely he would not have made it. Immediately he was gasping for air and the urgency of the situation was evident. He was placed in the NICU for 2 weeks because his lungs weren’t strong enough to allow his to breath on his own. I’ve also had other family members who have had emergency childbirth situations. My niece had her cord wrapped around her neck and wouldn’t come out. Had an emergency C-Section not been performed it is likely they both would have died. Again, let me state that I think it is a wonderful thing that there are women out there who make the decision to have a natural birth. It is a beautiful thing. I thought about it and decided against it. Boy, am I glad I did. Things aren’t always without problem and I wanted you to clearly weigh the options.
I agree with the above poster- things do go wrong in childbirth. The truth of the matter is that sadly mommas and babies can and have passed during birth in a hospital as well as at home. Women gave birth outside of hospitals for many years, the 1950′s is when the hospital became the new place for giving birth. I feel strongly about doing what is in your comfort level. I too believe that there are medical emergencies that constitute a need for medical intervention. However, at the same time, I feel that many of these emergencies arise due to the way hospitals approach birth and do not allow for women to give birth in a way that is natural to the body. And I feel that even while there are emergencies, they are often handled with extreme measure causing more harm than need be. I feel that this is done due to fear driven practices ( the hospitals and doctors don’t want a lawsuit.)
I feel that the hospitals and doctors need to take a more gentle and less radical approach. I too had a child (our 2nd) who was born with the cord wrapped around. He was born at home, and I was in labor, holding my push and my husband asked if I was pushing. I said yes. He then told me that the baby’s head was out but that it was not moving any further. So he looked and gently reached in and could see and feel that the baby had his hand against his cheek and that cord was wrapped around his shoulder/neck area- which was preventing him from moving further down in the birth canal. My husband gently reached in, slid the cord from around his shoulder and the baby came out on his own and is a very healthy and happy 7 year old now. Now, had I been in the hospital, I am not sure the outcome would have been the same. I am not sure what type of drastic procedure would have taken place because of the “emergency”.
Again, I am not saying a home birth is for everyone, it has to be a personal choice. But I feel that in this day and time, births are filled with “emergencies” that are not truly emergencies and thus a lot of unneeded things take place.
Having a hospital birth does not insure that an emergency will not arise, nor does it ensure that if there is a TRUE emergency, that both the mother and the baby will be safe.
Birth can be beautiful both at home and at a hospital, I just wish for the sake of mothers and children out there, that hospitals would begin or go back to the natural approach to childbirth, after all the female body was designed to give birth, it is a natural thing- not a medical event (which it seems to have turned into).
Please follow your heart, your intuition, rather it be at home or in a hospital and remember to stay strong and positive, in the end it truly makes a big difference.
Cristela- thanks for sharing your input.
Robyn, I have a question. Are your kids in public school? I’ve never thought to not immunize my kids because the schools always ask for shot records. How do you get by that? Thanks in advance.
Shay, I sign a waiver at the health dept., as many others do.