vaccines, part 3 of 4
Jennifer asked, in response to my recent blogs on immunization, about her son going on a church mission. The LDS Church requires a service or proselyting missionary to be current on shots–even seniors.
This blog entry applies only to LDS people concerned about vaccines who want to go on a mission or send a child on one. I called my mother, who recently served an 18-month mission in Italy with my father. She is extremely well read about the pharmaceutical industry and has been a guest on radio shows because of the level to which she has educated herself.
My mother called the church’s committee and spoke to a nurse there about her desire to avoid shots. (My mom is a rather tenacious person.) The nurse told my mom, “If you are not willing to be vaccinated, you will not leave your hometown to go on a mission.” She explained that the church doesn’t want to accept responsibility if a missionary needs to come home early. (The church does pay for missionaries to fly home.) My mom asked, may I sign a legal waiver? No. Even if I hire the attorney to put the legal waiver together? No.
Mom wanted desperately to go on a mission (supporting two Air Force bases in Northern Italy). Enough to get the shots. But she found a source to get immunized without the preservatives in the shots, and this helped her feel a LITTLE better. My parents paid $960 out of pocket for this, at a pharmacy, instead of shots their insurance paid for.
Mom also didn’t want the required mammogram (which she believes, from her research, to cause rather than prevent breast cancer). She ran into the same roadblock. She was able to negotiate to be allowed to use thermography instead of mammography. She went to Dr. Marietta Bergdorf, a naturopath in Bountiful, Utah. She was trained in holistic medicine in Europe but practices under an M.D. in order to have full rights.
Dr. Bergdorf said her son was in Switzerland on a mission and was not immunized. The doctor told my mother there is a statute in Utah law that you can’t discriminate on the basis of whether you immunize or not. She wrote a letter to the church and quoted Utah law, and they allowed her son to go without shots to her native country.
My mom said if she goes on another mission, she will put herself in Dr. Bergdorf’s care; the doctor told my mother she would help her accomplish the same objective.
My mother’s kinesiologist, Brandon Nielsen, is personal friends with the chiropractor just recently accepted on the church’s medical board. My mother asked him, “How can the brethren take the stand they take when the scriptures so clearly state that we will be healed by our foods and herbs?” Dr. Nielsen had the same concern and had asked his friend, who said it’s not the general authorities taking that stand. The GA’s have delegated to this medical committee the authority to make and set church policy. The brethren are not anti-”alternative”–they just allow a medical committee to set policy while they focus on other things.
This blog post has been a THIRD HAND RECOUNTING of someone else’s experience and story. I have simply interviewed and reported the quotes. However, you must do your own research, and I cannot vouch for the veracity of all the statements herein. Dr. Bergdorf’s phone number in Bountiful is 801-397-2273, and she practices at 469 Medical Dr. Suite 100.
My mom tells me all the time “well Pres Kimball said to vaccinate” Well, then I can tell her the quote from Young on women needing drs. for broken bones, but if they find themselves in increase they’ll go out, and what will they do? have a baby (My last baby was a UC, and it rocked!) But look at how the church is? Look at what we eat at our potlucks. Look at the food given to you when you go to the bishops storehouse-in the winter if you live in Vernal, you sure can’t get produce. Look at what they have you can at the cannery? I mean really… as much education this church has, it has lots of UNEDUCATION!
Do you recommend any books that covers natural remedies for when your kids do get sick. Especially if my husband and I decide to not vaccinate our kids I feel like I need to be confident in curing them if something comes up. Also do have any OB’s that you recommend that help with natural child birth??? What are your oppinions on natural child birth?
Thanks for your blog posts! You truly are an inspired women!
THANK YOU!!!! My husband and I are the only people in our family not to vaccinate and our son is very healthy. We have thought about and discussed the whole mission thing and are very glad that there are routes to pursue. Heidi, you are unlikely to find an OB who is pro natural childbirth. I highly recommend a midwife. Better Birth in SLC and Orem are awesome!!!
Heidi, I am a fan of natural childbirth even though I used OB/GYNs and was not particularly educated about more natural options when I had my babies. My only bad experience was with my 3rd, where they tested me for strep and told me I was positive and demanded I and the baby immediately get an antibiotic shot. Fortunately the birth was so quick after that, they never had a chance to administer the antibiotic. They forgot all about it and neither I nor my daughter ever got strep. (I test permanently positive for strep, since I had it many times as a kid. It is dormant in my body and does not ever make me ill.)
Well, also my first baby was pulled out, for hours, with forceps. (He had a 40-cm. head.) I think a midwife would have tried more natural methods first.
I think modern homebirth using a midwife or doulah is very safe and avoids the risks of hospitals.
For anyone considering natural, home childbirth, just remember that women still die in childbirth, and with a home birth, that risk goes way up. If you are far from a hospital and need an immediate c-section (for example: a breeched birth or the mother’s blood pressure spikes dangerously high), then you’re pretty much screwed. I’m all for avoiding germ-laden hospitals as much as possible, but be very careful and mindful about WHERE you choose to give birth. Many ob/gyns this day and age will work with patients who want to have natural home birth (many Women’s Health Centers have ob/gyns and Certified Midwives on staff). Many major hospitals have natural birthing centers on their campuses staffed with Certified Midwives and skilled nurses, so patients can have the natural birth they want in a clean/safe setting while still being in the immediate vicinity of a hospital’s surgical services should the need arise.
Thank you so much for this information. Something you wrote struck a related chord with me–about your mother believing that mamograms cause cancer as much as detect them. I have similar suspicions about sunscreen, and I know at least one prominent dermatologist does, too (he was shunned for years by his peers, but I understand this is receiving more scrunity now). I was wondering if you had any thoughts on the subject an whether we could look forward to a post on this topic as well? Thanks for all you do!
Anna, I have written about that before. See “Robyn Recommends” about sunscreen. We have organic (literally EDIBLE) sunscreen in the GSG store.
Roxanne, you are stating absolute untruths as fact. Homebirth is as safe as or safer than hospital birth. Breech birth is NOT a reason to go to hospital. I know many women who have birthed breech babies at home. Blood pressure rarely spikes unexpectedly at home. Your midwife monitors your blood pressure throughout the whole pregnancy and can see before you are in labour if your blood pressure is a problem. In that case they would likely recommend that you birth in a hospital.
The majority of c-sections performed in hospital are for doctor or mother “convenience” rather than emergency. Theater takes time to prep anyway, so if you live reasonably close to a hospital you are no closer to getting into theater if you plan a hospital birth. If you need to transfer your midwife can ring ahead, so they can get theater prepped for your arrival.
These “immediate” c-sections you refer to are usually caused by the high risk interventions that are routinely inflected on mothers in hospitals. c-section rates in hospitals are between 30-50%. The WHO recommends a rate of 10-15%. Home births have a c-section rates of <5% (obviously after transfer to hospital). Midwives do not practice high risk interventions at home.
ob/gyns specialise in complicated birth. Most have never seen a normal birth. It is close to impossible to have a truly natural birth in a hospital and only a little easer in a birth center connected to a hospital. If you want a normal/natural birth you employ a midwife. Normal birth is a midwives specialty. Our bodies are made to birth and we've been doing it for many thousands of years.
Personally, I know I am far safer having a home birth with a trained midwife. I had my 1st son in hospital and 2nd at home. All future babies will be born at home, unless there is a real emergency, in which case I will birth in a hospital. Your home is far cleaner than any hospital, because the only germs there are your own families.
Link on the safety of homebirth with a trained midwife:
http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/330/7505/1416
“if you are far from a hospital and need an immediate c-section (for example: a breeched birth or the mother’s blood pressure spikes dangerously high), then you’re pretty much screwed.”
Breech presentation is not a reason for a c-section. Homebirth midwives are well-trained in breech birth. OBs are not trained to do breech births. Also, a midwife will know well ahead of time that the baby is breech, so that the mother can make the decision. Many OBs are not experienced in palpating the baby’s position manually, so they will not know the baby is breech unless they are doing ultrasounds.
Blood pressure does not typically spike during labor, as Heidi pointed out.
Also, most Americans are not in the situation you describe, where they are far away from a hospital. Do you know what the HOSPITAL standard is for an *emergency* c-section? THIRTY MINUTES. They give themselves 30 minutes to get the OR prepared, all the personnel called in, etc. If there is truly an emergency, the midwife will call ahead to the hospital to get them started, and she or the ambulance will bring the mother in, well in advance of the 30 minute timetable. She will have to have general anesthesia, since it can be administered very quickly, and then they’re ready to go. The overall time does not end up being significantly more than it would if she was already in the hospital.
Thanks HeidiH for setting the record straight on homebirth! Studies and statistics show that home birth is very safe. Women used to die from childbed fever which was spread by doctors performing vaginal exams with unwashed hands. Misshapen pelvises from rickets were the other big killer. In the Victorian era, women who had drs. attend their birth were much, much more likely to die in childbirth than those with midwives because midwives didn’t do vaginal exams. In the Netherlands, 30% of all babies are born at home and their maternal and fetal mortality rates are much lower than the US. The US has one of the highest infant and maternal mortality rates in the industrialized world. P.S. breeches can be turned with the Webster technique by a chiropractor.
I am an OB nurse in an hospital and also have practiced lay midwifery in the third world. Yes, hospital birth does complicate things and most births (over 90%) don’t need to be complicated by interventions….but in the third world in one village provence every week (for 6 months I was there) a baby died during the labor process either by obstructed labor, prematurity, hemmorrhage, seizures from dangerously high pressure (which can increase slowly leading up to labor OR HAPPEN SUDDENLY up to 24 hours after birth), and many more problems. I am not pro-hospital nor am I pro-home birth (I think home birth should be reserved for low risk pregancies where complications are not expected)…..BUT the truth is in places where c-sections are not available immediately some babies or moms do die from OB emergencies during labor!!!!!!! So just because you or someone you know had a safe homebirth, don’t assume it is safe 100% of the time. Yes in low risk you do have probably over a 95% chance of having a safe birth, but emergencies do and can arise and I am thankful that a C-section is available vs. the option of death in rare cases. Also, many OB doctors are trained how to do breech births, as breech deliveries do happen when a woman comes into the hospital already too far in labor to have time for a c-section or a woman refuses the c-section….I have seen beautiful breech births from doctors and midwives….but I have also seen babies’ head get stuck being delivered by a doctor and a midwife in different deliveries (the risk is low, but it is high enough for me not to take a 1% higher chance of my baby’s head getting stuck for so long to suffer brain damage during delivery by either a doctor or midwife). Again, not saying I am against home birth and think hospital delivery is great….just don’t ditch the hospital delivery and rather choose a doctor who reserves interventions for the saving of life…..Also, babies do die from strep infection all over the world and discovery of group beta-strep virus that some women carry and fewer pass to their babies in the birth canal has greatly reduced the risk of newborn death. Yes, many women who are positive didn’t need the antibiotic in the 1st place, but it CAN get passed to your baby and your baby CAN get critically ill or die (odds are that it won’t happen, but it does happen rarely, which is enough times for me to want the antibiotic if I tested positive). I’m not saying that Robyn didn’t make the best decision for her not to have antibiotic, I’m just saying don’t suggest to readers it is unnecessary as they could end up with a critically ill baby, rather recommend that they research the data themselves. If you find data to suggest the antibiotic isn’t valuable in 100% of births for strep positive moms, please enlighten me on that! Other than this, I love your blog.
Sorry for the lecture….I’m signing off to make a yummy green smoothie now
Kim B., good point that I am not endorsing any specific protocol about antibiotics if someone else is told they test positive for strep in childbirth.
I was told, however, that I had no choice, however, which I found offensive. (Like I said, fortunately the baby was born so quickly they didn’t do it in time.)
Addendum….yes the standard for emergency c-section is 30 minutes, but if death is going to occur to the baby or mom before that, every one RUNS to the operating room and a good doctor can have the baby delivered within 5 minutes. It is nice to have the OR set up, the instruments counted, the doctor scrubbed up with sterile gloves, etc….but there are rare emergencies where there isn’t time to do so. And yes, midwives do have a lower complication rate and c-section rate, but they only take low-risk compliant moms as patients….doctors take care of women who don’t follow their advice, eat poor diet, smoke, obese, poorly controlled diabetics, women with already existing health problems, etc….which puts these women at higher risk for needing a c-section because they didn’t take care of themselves in 1st place. There are many doctors who are c-section happy, but please don’t judge all OBs by this standard….and don’t look at their rates vs. midwife’s rates of c-section as reason midwife’s are safer because midwife’s can only care for patients at low risk for needing a c-section in the 1st place.
Now….that green smoothie is waiting for me
I guess everyone should know in any hospital they should have the right to refuse any treatment. The nurses and doctors may “pressure” you to take a med or have a procedure, but it is ultimately up to the patient. Thanks for clarification.
Kim B. said “midwives do have a lower complication rate and c-section rate, but they only take low-risk compliant moms as patients” and “don’t look at their rates vs. midwife’s rates of c-section as reason midwife’s are safer because midwife’s can only care for patients at low risk for needing a c-section”
This is incorrect. Independent midwives (attending home births) take care of women of ALL risk levels. The definition of “high risk” is different for an independent midwife than in a hospital – ie. previous cesarean, twins or breech are all considered high risk in most hospitals, but they are not necessarily considered high risk be an independent midwife.
Please not that the study I linked to compares low risk mothers in hospital and at home. So this is comparing apples with apples.
I had my last baby at home because my previous pregnancy turned into a natural birth turned c-section, and I was birthing in the hospital, and I KNOW had I been home with a midwife, it would not have happened. I am left with a huge crooked scar – talk about body massacre…
but onto other things. When I took my homebirth baby to ped. the next day, he said since my water didn’t break until right before I had him, then he was safe if I did have the strep. It’s when the water breaks a certain time before. He also told me that a very high percent (more than 90) of women could safely birth at home.
I do think homebirth is something that needs to be well thought about, but so does hospital birth. Women need to educate themselves instead of putting it all in the hands of doctors and midwives. Hospitals serve a purpose, but statistically, the US has some seriously bad infant mortality rates.
I hope that “the church” is changing their views a bit about the whole drugs/vaccines/doctors versus natural healing thing. I was sent home early from my mission because I refused to take anti-depressants. I asked to be able to try taking vitamins but was told that it was drugs or go home. So home I went and suffered through all the shame and embarrassment from everyone around me. Fortunately now I have come to understand how to be nourished without vitamin supplements or drugs!
For those of us who know how to take care of our own health, we really live fine without a doctor, without a vaccine, and without anti-depressants! For those irresponsible people who eat whatever the crud they feel like (or for those who have yet to learn what good nutrition is) ahem, they can get shot up with noxious chemicals and metals and sent away on their missions. But for me, I’m awake and making my own decisions. Hope to inspire others to do the same.
I really hope the church will change their position soon on mandatory vaccines for missionaries. My daughter served a mission and had to receive the first hep b vaccine in the series to even be able to turn in her mission papers. She didn’t have any more. When she had that vaccine my husband gave her a priesthood blessing to help remove the toxins from her system and I also had her drink a whole bottle of Dr. Christopher’s Echinacea extract (per my friend who is a Master Herbalist.)
The anti-depressant issue also very sad. There are just way too many mission presidents who don’t understand the damage they can cause and how helpful alternative treatments can be.
Another harmful policy is that missionaries are not officially allowed to take herbal supplements because they “might” interact negatively with pharmaceutical drugs. Even though my daughter was not taking any prescriptions, the mission president would not relent. I finally just had to tell the Lord I was doing my best to keep my daughter healthy and I needed Him to make up for these harmful, misguided policies.
The saddest thing is when previously healthy kids have to come home early from missions because of medical problems caused by the very vaccines they were forced to take in the name of “protecting” their health. I’ve been praying for a long time that the brethren would take a serious look at the vaccine issue and pray about it instead of relying on a medical committee. Maybe if more people prayed for that it would happen. My husband argues that the brethren have more important things to worry about, but missionary work is part of the three-fold mission of the church and if current health policies are hindering that, it is very important!
Heidi, I had a low risk pregnancy and was luckily in the hospital, considering my daughter got stuck in my birth canal, and broke my tail bone during the process and finally had to be taken C-Section, leaving me with stitches and a severely bruised cervix. My second baby I debated whether to have C-Section or VBAC and luckily decided to have a CSection. During my C-Section my doctor and nurses all gasped at how thin my uterus was and said I was lucky I did not try to have my baby natural. I do not think they could have faked their concern. A friend of mine had a home birth and was rushed to the hospital after 32 hours of labor with her son stuck in her birth canal, he had been in the birth canal too long and too far in to perform a C-Section, so they finally got him out using forceps and the vacuum and his head was lopsided for the first 9 months of his life because of the way he was positioned in the birth canal for so long. This past December a coworker (wife of a fireman) of mine tried to have her baby at home, and the baby got stuck in the birth canal as well, the baby died on the way to the hospital, and she was in critical condition for two weeks in the hospital.
Don’t get me wrong, I am not against home birth, my mother had 6 kids at home and one in the hospital (her last baby was in the hospital, but came so fast she was forced to still have her all natural, and was happy with her hospital experience, but probably to escape her 6 kids at home for a mini vacation
, her first one was breach and she had to have hime pulled out by his feet and get 27 stitches with out any anesthesia, with her second baby she hemmoraged for 3 weeks due to some missed placenta in the uterus. Most of my aunts had home births (one had to be rushed to the hospital during labor due to complications), but all the others were born safely at home.
I think that just like with immunizations, people need to look at all the facts and risks associated with home birth. I think you need to do your research on the different hospitals and birthing centers, and how close your house is located to the nearest hospital. I would also ask your midwife what their process is if something does go wrong, and how long they will wait to get you help, and how you will be transported etc. Get referrals and be dilligent on researching the midwife you choose to bring your baby into this world. My grandmother was a midwife and delivered me on her couch, and she also delivered a few of my brothers, my sister and serveral of my cousins. I know all about midwives and how amazing they can be, but being transported to a hospital in a car without painkillers with a baby stuck in your birth canal can be horribly painful. I personally have had 3 C-Sections, but I am lucky to have an amazing doctor and a great hospital that is clean and caring of their patients. My cousin is a midwife in Africa right now and tells many heart wrenching stories about women and babies that die of complications during birth weekly. I know for me, I would have been one of the women rushed to the hospital, and I am thankful I made the decision to have my baby in the hospital.
Hey everyone,
I am getting ready to go on a mission and I have been very concerned about getting the vaccines. My dad is a chiropractor who is very much into alternative wellness and I’ve grown up in that. My older brother went on a mission and just got all his vaccines, but I really don’t want to! Anyways, I have never had ANY vaccines and I’m so glad I found this article! Robyn, I tried to google that UT law but I couldn’t find it, is there anyway you have a link to that specific law? Or know of an easier way to find it?
My dad was also wondering if there’s any kind of homeopathic vaccines that a homeopathic MD could administer and that would count as the vaccines? I don’t see how they could really pass them off as normal vaccines, but I was wondering if you guys knew anything about that?
Thanks!
How can I get part 1, 2, and 3 of your immunization discussion.